5 ms·

I've never seen any evidence of anyone hurt by the large scale collection of personal data by Google and FB.

by cm2012 6y ago

stevenicr 6y ago
small data points from here compared to the big lot.. friend unsure about her marriage.. getting ads to sell her wedding ring via fbook.. they divorced 2 months later. Guess what the first thing she did was? A friend's father.. gambling addiction and an android phone - sleeps on the streets and eats via dumpsters, still keeps that addictive android device running. Google sending data on people to fusion centers.. maybe none of those people were ever hurt by that - or the sharing of info from location data dumps, or the vids from nest cams.. I would assume there is a probability that at least one person was hurt when actions via gun toting state came knocking on at least one door, maybe more - and that stuff 100% coming from collection of data. Just because journalists aren't interviewing these people to see if they were hurt, does not mean it's not happening. I have no way to opt people out of alcohol ads.. I've seen them so I know others have.. does a sale on the new pink-liqour at 10am lead someone to drink out of juice boxes before noon at a kid's soccer practice? I can't say for sure.. it's just a coincidence they are drinking the new advertised thing - maybe it was an ad on the liqour store window that did it - there won't be hard evidence there. I can think of more, but I know these are small data points from here. I'm glad you have not witnessed such things.
- twox2 6y ago
  IMO these are weak examples. - Are you suggesting that your friend got divorced so that she could sell her ring, because an ad told her she could sell her ring? I doubt that was the straw that broke the camels back. - The android phone has utility beyond it's addictiveness. Yes homeless people need a phone. - Re fusion centers: ads targeting data is a relatively shitty surveillance too, the three letter agencies have much better ways of collecting this data. - Targeted alcohol advertising I'll agree is an issue, but if you're an alcoholic, you can't really escape the ubiquity of alcohol everywhere. I think the adverse privacy impact of targeted advertising is pretty overblown, but it so happens that ad targeting is so effective it has the illusion of being surveillant. The actual data being collected is anonymized and not personal.
  - cm2012 6y ago
    Agreed on all of this, + Facebook and Google both ban images of alcohol on their ad networks. Even someone holding a glass of wine.
    - mateo411 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure that's not correct. As a counter example I've seen ads for alcohol and bars in my Facebook feed.
      - shkkmo 6y ago
        Those two are not mutually exclusive. You an ban images of alcohol while allowing adds for alcohol and bars (as long as they don't have images of alcohol.) I suspect there may different rules for different jurisdictions/markets which might explain differences in your experiences.
        mateo411 6y ago
        The ads I saw included images of alcohol.
      - kapp_in_life 6y ago
        You can opt out of alcohol ads on Facebook at least. Its somewhere in your ad preferences
    - stevenicr 6y ago
      I am pretty sure I have some screenshots of google ads for alcohol when scrolling through my google news feed - I have not seen many - but it struck a nerve a time or two I am pretty sure - and I think I screenshotted them. I will check on this. I would love it if they would ban such - I am not a prohibitionist, but also think people should be able to request a "non-alchohol ads on the table section", much like people once chose to sit in smoking / non-smoking.. when trying to cater to folks who struggled with such, indeed the options were limited for dining out.. IHop and waffle bouse two of the options I recall.
- kapp_in_life 6y ago
  Facebook at least lets you opt out of alcohol advertisements, its buried somewhere in your ad preferences settings.
jjj1232 6y ago
My Instagram ads seem to be laser-focused on my insecurities. I don’t buy the shit they’re selling by they definitely make me feel bad about myself, so mission half accomplished!
username90 6y ago
If you are a woman have fun seeing ads for makeup and fashion all the time. There is a reason female users are hot commodity for any ad driven company, companies are willing to pay way more to advertise to women. Targeted ads supports the status quo instead of exposing everyone to stuff they might want.
- cm2012 6y ago
  Targeted ads are much better at exposing people to new products they could want to try than non targeted ads, which appeal to the lowest common denominator. You're actually asking for better targeted ads for your gf
Bancakes 6y ago
Targeted ads and analytics are not opt-in by default. This leads to shadow profiles and my data being handled by corporations I don't trust. I don't need facebook and all its stalkers to know where I live, for instance. Not to mention targeted ads just don't work for me. They always show crap I'd never use, within my domain of knowledge, and never show interesting things outside my domain. Overall I'm more than glad to block ads because I gain nothing from them. They are a liability. Anonymization I don't believe in, what's the difference between my SSN and a MD5 of my SSN?
burkaman 6y ago
This is because you've never looked for the evidence. It is trivial to find with a 10 second search. https://www.intomore.com/you/facebook-ads-outed-me/ https://www.intomore.com/you/facebook-ads-outed-me/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2018/12/12/dear-tech-companies-i-dont-want-see-pregnancy-ads-after-my-child-was-stillborn/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2018/12/12/dear-tec... https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/4/9/21204425/targeted-ads-fertility-eating-disorder-coronavirus https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/4/9/21204425/targeted-ads... https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-lets-advertisers-exclude-users-by-race https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-lets-advertisers..., https://www.propublica.org/article/hud-sues-facebook-housing-discrimination-advertising-algorithms https://www.propublica.org/article/hud-sues-facebook-housing..., https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-advertising-discrimination-housing-race-sex-national-origin https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-advertising-disc... https://themarkup.org/citizen-browser/2021/04/29/credit-card-ads-were-targeted-by-age-violating-facebooks-anti-discrimination-policy https://themarkup.org/citizen-browser/2021/04/29/credit-card... https://themarkup.org/news/2021/04/13/how-facebooks-ad-system-lets-companies-talk-out-of-both-sides-of-their-mouths https://themarkup.org/news/2021/04/13/how-facebooks-ad-syste... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Ana... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-27/ad-scammers-need-suckers-and-facebook-helps-find-them https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-27/ad-scamme... etc. etc. etc.
- Nimitz14 6y ago
  I checked about of half of these out and I can't take any of the complaints seriously. The strongest argument against tracking remains the moral one.
- cm2012 6y ago
  The first link is not a credible worry. Ad targeting is not even close to 100% accurate, no ad can out you. You can just brush it off. Links 2 and 3 are concerning. The FB and Google do have a way to stop that though - you can click an ad and say it doesn't interest you or you don't like it, that signal is insanely strong and the platforms will turn off the spigot. The rest is not actual harm to people, its people concerned about the idea of targeting being harmful. Cambridge Analytica was a laughable scandal btw, absolutely no one was actually impacted by it.
stevenicr 5y ago
A week later - and an HN discussion about ads on google that impersonate government web sites.. reminded me of a few more things where people get hurt by big surv-ad-capitalism -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27152524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27152524 via (Ads Are Impersonating Government Websites in Google Results, Despite Ban - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27150407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27150407 )

I've never seen any evidence of anyone hurt by the large scale collection of personal data by Google and FB.

by cm2012 6y ago

I've never seen any evidence of anyone hurt by the large scale collection of personal data by Google and FB.

small data points from here compared to the big lot.. friend unsure about her marriage.. getting ads to sell her wedding ring via fbook.. they divorced 2 months later. Guess what the first thing she did was? A friend's father.. gambling addiction and an android phone - sleeps on the streets and eats via dumpsters, still keeps that addictive android device running. Google sending data on people to fusion centers.. maybe none of those people were ever hurt by that - or the sharing of info from location data dumps, or the vids from nest cams.. I would assume there is a probability that at least one person was hurt when actions via gun toting state came knocking on at least one door, maybe more - and that stuff 100% coming from collection of data. Just because journalists aren't interviewing these people to see if they were hurt, does not mean it's not happening. I have no way to opt people out of alcohol ads.. I've seen them so I know others have.. does a sale on the new pink-liqour at 10am lead someone to drink out of juice boxes before noon at a kid's soccer practice? I can't say for sure.. it's just a coincidence they are drinking the new advertised thing - maybe it was an ad on the liqour store window that did it - there won't be hard evidence there. I can think of more, but I know these are small data points from here. I'm glad you have not witnessed such things.

twox2 6y ago
IMO these are weak examples. - Are you suggesting that your friend got divorced so that she could sell her ring, because an ad told her she could sell her ring? I doubt that was the straw that broke the camels back. - The android phone has utility beyond it's addictiveness. Yes homeless people need a phone. - Re fusion centers: ads targeting data is a relatively shitty surveillance too, the three letter agencies have much better ways of collecting this data. - Targeted alcohol advertising I'll agree is an issue, but if you're an alcoholic, you can't really escape the ubiquity of alcohol everywhere. I think the adverse privacy impact of targeted advertising is pretty overblown, but it so happens that ad targeting is so effective it has the illusion of being surveillant. The actual data being collected is anonymized and not personal.
- cm2012 6y ago
  Agreed on all of this, + Facebook and Google both ban images of alcohol on their ad networks. Even someone holding a glass of wine.
  - mateo411 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's not correct. As a counter example I've seen ads for alcohol and bars in my Facebook feed.
    - shkkmo 6y ago
      Those two are not mutually exclusive. You an ban images of alcohol while allowing adds for alcohol and bars (as long as they don't have images of alcohol.) I suspect there may different rules for different jurisdictions/markets which might explain differences in your experiences.
      - mateo411 6y ago
        The ads I saw included images of alcohol.
    - kapp_in_life 6y ago
      You can opt out of alcohol ads on Facebook at least. Its somewhere in your ad preferences
  - stevenicr 6y ago
    I am pretty sure I have some screenshots of google ads for alcohol when scrolling through my google news feed - I have not seen many - but it struck a nerve a time or two I am pretty sure - and I think I screenshotted them. I will check on this. I would love it if they would ban such - I am not a prohibitionist, but also think people should be able to request a "non-alchohol ads on the table section", much like people once chose to sit in smoking / non-smoking.. when trying to cater to folks who struggled with such, indeed the options were limited for dining out.. IHop and waffle bouse two of the options I recall.
kapp_in_life 6y ago
Facebook at least lets you opt out of alcohol advertisements, its buried somewhere in your ad preferences settings.

jjj1232 6y ago

My Instagram ads seem to be laser-focused on my insecurities. I don’t buy the shit they’re selling by they definitely make me feel bad about myself, so mission half accomplished!

username90 6y ago

If you are a woman have fun seeing ads for makeup and fashion all the time. There is a reason female users are hot commodity for any ad driven company, companies are willing to pay way more to advertise to women. Targeted ads supports the status quo instead of exposing everyone to stuff they might want.

cm2012 6y ago
Targeted ads are much better at exposing people to new products they could want to try than non targeted ads, which appeal to the lowest common denominator. You're actually asking for better targeted ads for your gf

Bancakes 6y ago

Targeted ads and analytics are not opt-in by default. This leads to shadow profiles and my data being handled by corporations I don't trust. I don't need facebook and all its stalkers to know where I live, for instance. Not to mention targeted ads just don't work for me. They always show crap I'd never use, within my domain of knowledge, and never show interesting things outside my domain. Overall I'm more than glad to block ads because I gain nothing from them. They are a liability. Anonymization I don't believe in, what's the difference between my SSN and a MD5 of my SSN?

burkaman 6y ago

This is because you've never looked for the evidence. It is trivial to find with a 10 second search. https://www.intomore.com/you/facebook-ads-outed-me/ https://www.intomore.com/you/facebook-ads-outed-me/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2018/12/12/dear-tech-companies-i-dont-want-see-pregnancy-ads-after-my-child-was-stillborn/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2018/12/12/dear-tec... https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/4/9/21204425/targeted-ads-fertility-eating-disorder-coronavirus https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/4/9/21204425/targeted-ads... https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-lets-advertisers-exclude-users-by-race https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-lets-advertisers..., https://www.propublica.org/article/hud-sues-facebook-housing-discrimination-advertising-algorithms https://www.propublica.org/article/hud-sues-facebook-housing..., https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-advertising-discrimination-housing-race-sex-national-origin https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-advertising-disc... https://themarkup.org/citizen-browser/2021/04/29/credit-card-ads-were-targeted-by-age-violating-facebooks-anti-discrimination-policy https://themarkup.org/citizen-browser/2021/04/29/credit-card... https://themarkup.org/news/2021/04/13/how-facebooks-ad-system-lets-companies-talk-out-of-both-sides-of-their-mouths https://themarkup.org/news/2021/04/13/how-facebooks-ad-syste... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Ana... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-27/ad-scammers-need-suckers-and-facebook-helps-find-them https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-27/ad-scamme... etc. etc. etc.

Nimitz14 6y ago
I checked about of half of these out and I can't take any of the complaints seriously. The strongest argument against tracking remains the moral one.
cm2012 6y ago
The first link is not a credible worry. Ad targeting is not even close to 100% accurate, no ad can out you. You can just brush it off. Links 2 and 3 are concerning. The FB and Google do have a way to stop that though - you can click an ad and say it doesn't interest you or you don't like it, that signal is insanely strong and the platforms will turn off the spigot. The rest is not actual harm to people, its people concerned about the idea of targeting being harmful. Cambridge Analytica was a laughable scandal btw, absolutely no one was actually impacted by it.

stevenicr 5y ago

A week later - and an HN discussion about ads on google that impersonate government web sites.. reminded me of a few more things where people get hurt by big surv-ad-capitalism -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27152524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27152524 via (Ads Are Impersonating Government Websites in Google Results, Despite Ban - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27150407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27150407 )