5 ms·

The Wendy's in Bozeman MT is starting at $17/hr. The McDonalds is starting at $15.50. This is not a wages problem. This is a huge influx of wealthy people to t

The Wendy's in Bozeman MT is starting at $17/hr. The McDonalds is starting at $15.50. This is not a wages problem. This is a huge influx of wealthy people to the state that aren't working but are taking up property and services problem.

falcolas 5y ago
The cost of living in Bozeman is astronomical. $800k single family houses. $1,500 apartments. Even the exorbitant sounding $17 an hour isn’t much of a living wage in Bozeman anymore. Hasn’t been for a decade or more.
- COGlory 5y ago
  People getting paid entry wage at McDonald's were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Also housing prices are astronomical, but your numbers are a touch high. I believe the median home price is $600k or so.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    > were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Cost of living isn't just "buying a house". It's housing, transportation, clothing, food, etc. > your numbers are a touch high. Nope. I just got a flier that mentioned that the average home price for a townhouse in Belgrade (a "suburb" of Bozeman (which itself only has roughly a 50k population), for those not local) is $765k.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    > entry wage at McDonald's "Entry wage" is a misnomer for jobs like that. There's no advancement at a job like that except to management, and there will always be an order of magnitude fewer managers than workers (and far less turnover.)
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Not everyone who works at McDonald's is supposed to stay there forever and advance there. In general, you should either be getting a college degree or taking up a skilled trade, and only working at McDonald's until you do.
      - falcolas 5y ago
        A college degree is not a guarantee that you'll get a high paying job. Some degrees will only offer a $10k improvement over a full time McD's job. The average will push you into $70k a year, which puts you about $20k over the poverty line at least†. And skilled trades... they've been devalued as well. The average salary for a welder is in the $17/$18 range across America††. Not really better than McD's (in this thread of conversation at least). † https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/average-salary-for-college-graduates https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/average-sala... †† https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/welding-jobs-salary-and-highest-paying-positions https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/welding-jobs...
- sambroner 5y ago
  This comment completely shocked me. Quick zillow verifies it... If you had asked me, I would have guessed <$200k. What drives those prices?
  - falcolas 5y ago
    People selling their $1.5M home in California and buying one home here and one in Arizona/Florida.
    - calvano915 5y ago
      > People selling their $1.5M home in California and buying one home here and one in Arizona/Florida. And real estate investment groups buying up housing to rent.
      - falcolas 5y ago
        As per a conversation I had with a realtor, they don't buy houses to rent them out, since the wear and tear of the renting lowers the eventual sale price. Since the price for houses has been going up steadily for over a decade now, it's financially advantageous for them to leave the houses empty and wait for a sale.
- bombcar 5y ago
  Sounds like a supply/demand problem; I wonder what caused an influx of out-of-towners buying up properties.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    It's a beautiful area with lots of nature-based activities nearby, and the prices are/were low enough that people moving away from California could buy a house here and in Arizona.
    - bombcar 5y ago
      That makes sense, we're seeing a "covid bubble" from people from areas like CA into rural places - combined with the labor shortage and lumber prices this will cause some disruption for awhile, but then I expect we see a price crash there eventually, brought on by over-building.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > That makes sense, we're seeing a "covid bubble" from people from areas like CA into rural places It has been fairly extensively covered that the COVID migration from coastal California is overwhelmingly to inland California (and not particularly to “rural places”; e.g., the main destination of the Bay Area COVID migration is the urban and suburban parts of the Sacramento metro.)
      - falcolas 5y ago
        > I expect we see a price crash there eventually, brought on by over-building. Sadly, it's not a covid-driven bubble. 5 years ago a new downtown development was selling condos at $600k a pop, and they were sold out before the building was finished. Affluent people have been moving here for decades now. ref. https://www.taunyafagan.com/bozeman-price-trends/ https://www.taunyafagan.com/bozeman-price-trends/ for the market around 10 years ago.
lizknope 5y ago
Okay but they should be paying taxes locally. I don't know about Montana but in my state I pay state income taxes, county and city property taxes, and state, county, city sales taxes.

falcolas 5y ago

The cost of living in Bozeman is astronomical. $800k single family houses. $1,500 apartments. Even the exorbitant sounding $17 an hour isn’t much of a living wage in Bozeman anymore. Hasn’t been for a decade or more.

COGlory 5y ago
People getting paid entry wage at McDonald's were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Also housing prices are astronomical, but your numbers are a touch high. I believe the median home price is $600k or so.
- falcolas 5y ago
  > were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Cost of living isn't just "buying a house". It's housing, transportation, clothing, food, etc. > your numbers are a touch high. Nope. I just got a flier that mentioned that the average home price for a townhouse in Belgrade (a "suburb" of Bozeman (which itself only has roughly a 50k population), for those not local) is $765k.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  > entry wage at McDonald's "Entry wage" is a misnomer for jobs like that. There's no advancement at a job like that except to management, and there will always be an order of magnitude fewer managers than workers (and far less turnover.)
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Not everyone who works at McDonald's is supposed to stay there forever and advance there. In general, you should either be getting a college degree or taking up a skilled trade, and only working at McDonald's until you do.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      A college degree is not a guarantee that you'll get a high paying job. Some degrees will only offer a $10k improvement over a full time McD's job. The average will push you into $70k a year, which puts you about $20k over the poverty line at least†. And skilled trades... they've been devalued as well. The average salary for a welder is in the $17/$18 range across America††. Not really better than McD's (in this thread of conversation at least). † https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/average-salary-for-college-graduates https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/average-sala... †† https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/welding-jobs-salary-and-highest-paying-positions https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/welding-jobs...
sambroner 5y ago
This comment completely shocked me. Quick zillow verifies it... If you had asked me, I would have guessed <$200k. What drives those prices?
- falcolas 5y ago
  People selling their $1.5M home in California and buying one home here and one in Arizona/Florida.
  - calvano915 5y ago
    > People selling their $1.5M home in California and buying one home here and one in Arizona/Florida. And real estate investment groups buying up housing to rent.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      As per a conversation I had with a realtor, they don't buy houses to rent them out, since the wear and tear of the renting lowers the eventual sale price. Since the price for houses has been going up steadily for over a decade now, it's financially advantageous for them to leave the houses empty and wait for a sale.
bombcar 5y ago
Sounds like a supply/demand problem; I wonder what caused an influx of out-of-towners buying up properties.
- falcolas 5y ago
  It's a beautiful area with lots of nature-based activities nearby, and the prices are/were low enough that people moving away from California could buy a house here and in Arizona.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    That makes sense, we're seeing a "covid bubble" from people from areas like CA into rural places - combined with the labor shortage and lumber prices this will cause some disruption for awhile, but then I expect we see a price crash there eventually, brought on by over-building.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > That makes sense, we're seeing a "covid bubble" from people from areas like CA into rural places It has been fairly extensively covered that the COVID migration from coastal California is overwhelmingly to inland California (and not particularly to “rural places”; e.g., the main destination of the Bay Area COVID migration is the urban and suburban parts of the Sacramento metro.)
    - falcolas 5y ago
      > I expect we see a price crash there eventually, brought on by over-building. Sadly, it's not a covid-driven bubble. 5 years ago a new downtown development was selling condos at $600k a pop, and they were sold out before the building was finished. Affluent people have been moving here for decades now. ref. https://www.taunyafagan.com/bozeman-price-trends/ https://www.taunyafagan.com/bozeman-price-trends/ for the market around 10 years ago.

lizknope 5y ago

Okay but they should be paying taxes locally. I don't know about Montana but in my state I pay state income taxes, county and city property taxes, and state, county, city sales taxes.