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Can confirm. I’m friends with a group of very smart distributed systems engineers who were excited to launch an actually useful crypto project that gets talked
by PragmaticPulp 6y ago
Can confirm. I’m friends with a group of very smart distributed systems engineers who were excited to launch an actually useful crypto project that gets talked about here from time to time.
As much as they’re excited about the technology itself, very few people are actually interested in using it. Instead, their business seems to revolve around the value of the utility tokens for their project.
Few people are buying the utility tokens to pay for the service. They’re buying them to horde so they can resell to other speculators when the price goes up. They have a lot of tokens in circulation, but only a small number of them get used to pay for the service. Many of them are sitting in the wallets of exchanges where they get traded back and forth but never come near the blockchain.
Investors only care about getting more press releases out so they can pump up the price of their discounted tokens, which have a shortened lockup period relative to something like stocks. It’s almost like a pump-and-dump scheme for investors.
Maybe their underlying project will become popular in the future, but the volatility of the token price makes it increasingly unattractive for companies that want to actually use it.
- mkohlmyr 6y ago> Investors only care about getting more press releases out so they can pump up the price of their discounted tokens, which have a shortened lockup period relative to something like stocks. It’s almost like a pump-and-dump scheme for investors. "almost" If even useful services are being abused for speculation, it's time to realise the entire space is fundamentally broken. We've already seen massive fraud in the space, it's only a matter of time before people who fundamentally don't understand what they are "investing in" are left holding bags. It will necessarily collapse because of how it's being used. (imo)
- berkes 6y agoHow is this any different from the "web tech" space at large? Where investors will push towards "data-hoarding", privacy-invasion, dark patterns and/or addictiveness or other psychological "abuse", more often than not?
- tnzm 6y agoThat's why it's the investment space that needs disruption - which is why crypto is met with so much pushback on HN. A year ago, crypto-related stories made front page much less often, if at all.
- verdverm 6y ago2017 was very different. Crypto type stories frequented the front page with technical marvels. Then a few things happened... 1) we evaluated 2) this scamconomy arose 3) the bubble burst. I was excited then, when it was new to me, but then I learnt the truth about blockchain
- tinyhouse 6y agoBecause people here try to understand the technology and its usage before riding the hype train. Most people investing in Ether for example have no idea what it even means. But when you ask them they would spit answers like "it's going to revolutionize finance..". When you ask them how, they have no answer. When you ask them for specific applications that they know of outside of the stupid NFT, they send you to Google. Yesterday someone on Youtube gave an example about a fridge that will order you eggs and milk when they run out, and everything will be done on the blockchain. Not a crypto hater. I even invest for fun and because you cannot deny the opportunity to make money rn. But don't expect people to ride the train blindly. I do think that crypto isn't going anywhere. But the current valuation of these coins is just absurd rn.
- intotheabyss 6y agoThere are plenty of useful applications on Ethereum. Maker, Compound, Aave, dYdX, Synthetix, UMA, Uniswap to name very few.
- tinyhouse 6y agoThanks. I will take a look.
- 6y ago
- matheusmoreira 6y agoIs price speculation considered abuse?
- mkohlmyr 6y agoThe tokens issued in this case (on of the few) have a purpose which is not speculation. If large amounts of speculation is undermining the business itself then yes I think that might qualify as a form of abuse? Happy to use an alternative term of your choice, ESL etc.
- matheusmoreira 6y agoI'm not sure if the price speculation actually undermines the underlying businesses. For example, I participate in a blockchain wiki project. On the telegram there is a lot of people talking about the price but I don't feel like it diminishes the usefulness of the project. I asked questions about editing, the admins helped me out and I was able to use the platform.
- extr 6y agoSounds like Chainlink
- kayhi 6y agoor filecoin
- PragmaticPulp 6y agoLike the OP Twitter thread said: It's universal across every crypto project that issues their own tokens. There's no reason to force customers to buy a brand new token invented out of thin air just to pay for a service that could be otherwise purchased with real money or Ethereum.
- gge 6y agoWhat are you talking about? Chainlink is used a ton, literally powers most of defi. Its used to secure 10s of billions of $.
- monkeydust 6y agoPerhaps their initial approach was not the right one i.e. was the public token the right method to maximize the value of their actual offering? Maybe they need to rethink given what you have said. I know of a very similar company (might even be the same one) the telegram forum they have setup is just full of people speculating what will / might happen ...will it go to the moon... etc.. They have now moderated that out but still main reason people join the group to start with.
- hanniabu 6y agoWhy don't you be transparent and tell us the service?
- ipaddr 6y agoIn many cases it is very useful. In this case does it really matter who? It could apply to almost all cryto projects.
- hanniabu 6y agoYes it does because he's saying "I swear guys this was definitely a good idea no need to confirm what I say" and then continues to bash crypto because it wasn't getting any traction. So his argument is just based on his opinion that it was a great idea, meanwhile most ideas are garbage.
- alephu5 6y agoThis seems like it should be labeled as some kind of social law: Any blockchain will always converge towards a speculation vehicle. In much the same way, social networks almost always seem to become hookup platforms.
- notJim 6y ago> They’re buying them to horde so they can resell to other speculators when the price goes up. It's almost like all interest in cryptocurrency is driven by greed and speculation. I've been learning more about it, and I'm pretty convinced this is the case. Go into any crypto space, and all people are talking about is yield, price action, how much their tokens have grown etc. I think the only thing I've seen that isn't purely about speculation is NFTs, oddly enough, which seem to be basically a fad.
- wonderwonder 6y agoTo be fair though that's most things. That's the very purpose of the stock market. When you buy a stock most of the time most people don't care what the company it represents does, they just want the stock to go up. Same thing can be applied to most things there are vast warehouses full of art people will never see as its just owned as a tax dodge / speculation. Heck most of us work jobs we hate for nothing but money. Greed / speculation and the need for income make the world go round.
- XorNot 6y agoAll those things still produce tangible goods at the end though, is the difference. I can hate my job but at the end of the day I still created value for my employer. Companies on the stock market still create actual value for people, even if shareholders don't particularly care how they do it.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- X6S1x6Okd1st 6y agoDoes Facebook produce tangible goods?
- jokethrowaway 6y agoYes, a social network
- wmf 6y agoFew people are buying the utility tokens to pay for the service. They’re buying them to hoard so they can resell to other speculators That's not a utility token. If you want to create a true utility token, make it stable and you won't have to worry about speculation.
- zaphar 6y agoThis is impossible. If it can be traded it can be speculated. The value of any tradable asset is determined by how much someone is willing to trade for it and by nothing else. There is no way to make it stable other than to make it impossible to trade.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- maxwell 6y agoWhat if asset issuers ("crypto manufacturers") imposed contractual price ceilings/floors? Probably more realistic with exchanges ("authorized resellers") than individual traders. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-supply-chain/manufacturer-imposed https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...
- thegreatpeter 6y agoi agree, but there are stable coins...
- fuzzybear3965 6y agoSkyNet/SiaSky?