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I do not want you, as a web developer to be able to target my device with an app when I visit your link. I don’t want to be forced to deny access to every servi

I do not want you, as a web developer to be able to target my device with an app when I visit your link. I don’t want to be forced to deny access to every service/feature on the device via pop-ups either. Until there’s a proper open standard for “web technology” apps that are opt-in and user initiated, and clearly separated (visually and technically) from web pages (which are documents) I feel like Apple are on my side here. I want app developers to jump through more hoops than people making websites, and to need my express approval to run their app on my device. I absolutely do not want documents that “progressively” turn into apps. PWA is a bug not a feature.

simion314 5y ago
>from web pages (which are documents) Why would a document have access to your camera and microphone? I am 100% sure Apple would remove the camera and microphone API from iOS browsers if they could and the fanboys would defend it with "think about children and grandmas". The Web has a portion that is more then documents, like music/video , games, simulations/animations. It makes sense from the POV of a greedy corporation to cripple say a web streaming app so you get a 30% cut of the subscriptions, or cripple video games 3d performance (with terrilble webgl) so you get 30% of those sweet lootboxes and gems.(BTW why is Apple not thinking at children with the lootboxes stuff?)
- barnabee 5y ago
  Lots of reasons a document might user my camera - to fill in a form, for example. Obviously there’s a blurry line between document and app, and for some use cases it makes sense to be more app-like. I’m very fine with this blurry line, and using web tech for all these things, even full apps if you want, as long as you don’t expect access to intrusive or persistent features when I browse to your website, but only when I decide to install/allow your “app”. Whether Apple is obliged to provide a platform in which web tech used in apps matches native performance and features… I don’t see why they should be, though it’d be nice. I totally agree forcing all apps via the App Store is bad btw. Alternative app stores and side loading should probably be allowed, but that doesn’t mean the answer is more ways for websites to intrude and behave badly in the browser.
hutzlibu 5y ago
"I want app developers to jump through more hoops than people making websites" It might be news to you, but webtechnologies have evolved a bit, from displaying static documents. Have you heard of wasm for example? Quite interesting, what you can do with that. And a bit more sophisticated, than scratching together some html markup. But I very much agree, though, that I also don't want any website to have deeper access to my hardware, without explicit consent from myself. "Until there’s a proper open standard for “web technology” apps that are opt-in and user initiated, and clearly separated (visually and technically) from web pages (which are documents) I feel like Apple are on my side here." So yes, there is more work needed in that area to make that distinction more clear to the users. But I don't see Apple is pushing in that direction. Rather the opposite. Pushing into their walled garden, they control. Otherwise they would be very free and able to polish their PWA permission dialogs, to protect their users, no? What is hindering them?

simion314 5y ago

>from web pages (which are documents) Why would a document have access to your camera and microphone? I am 100% sure Apple would remove the camera and microphone API from iOS browsers if they could and the fanboys would defend it with "think about children and grandmas". The Web has a portion that is more then documents, like music/video , games, simulations/animations. It makes sense from the POV of a greedy corporation to cripple say a web streaming app so you get a 30% cut of the subscriptions, or cripple video games 3d performance (with terrilble webgl) so you get 30% of those sweet lootboxes and gems.(BTW why is Apple not thinking at children with the lootboxes stuff?)

barnabee 5y ago
Lots of reasons a document might user my camera - to fill in a form, for example. Obviously there’s a blurry line between document and app, and for some use cases it makes sense to be more app-like. I’m very fine with this blurry line, and using web tech for all these things, even full apps if you want, as long as you don’t expect access to intrusive or persistent features when I browse to your website, but only when I decide to install/allow your “app”. Whether Apple is obliged to provide a platform in which web tech used in apps matches native performance and features… I don’t see why they should be, though it’d be nice. I totally agree forcing all apps via the App Store is bad btw. Alternative app stores and side loading should probably be allowed, but that doesn’t mean the answer is more ways for websites to intrude and behave badly in the browser.

hutzlibu 5y ago

"I want app developers to jump through more hoops than people making websites" It might be news to you, but webtechnologies have evolved a bit, from displaying static documents. Have you heard of wasm for example? Quite interesting, what you can do with that. And a bit more sophisticated, than scratching together some html markup. But I very much agree, though, that I also don't want any website to have deeper access to my hardware, without explicit consent from myself. "Until there’s a proper open standard for “web technology” apps that are opt-in and user initiated, and clearly separated (visually and technically) from web pages (which are documents) I feel like Apple are on my side here." So yes, there is more work needed in that area to make that distinction more clear to the users. But I don't see Apple is pushing in that direction. Rather the opposite. Pushing into their walled garden, they control. Otherwise they would be very free and able to polish their PWA permission dialogs, to protect their users, no? What is hindering them?