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> Now if someone asks me "Hey where can I go see that thing that was taken off of Youtube" I don't have a ready answer that isn't an alt-right cesspool. You co

by dmos62 5y ago

> Now if someone asks me "Hey where can I go see that thing that was taken off of Youtube" I don't have a ready answer that isn't an alt-right cesspool. You complain about some sites being alt-right cesspools, as if being a cesspool is not bad on its own.

capableweb 5y ago
Of course "cesspool" is bad, "alt-right cesspool" is the same amount of badness. The reason you don't see a lot of "alt-left cesspool"s is because usually those people don't need to hide on alternative social media, as the mainstream ones are fine with alt-left people. Alt-right are the ones who are currently being fired if their opinion are being shared publicly. Now I'm neither of those, and have no fists in the fight at all, but I also realize what the current climate is like, even though I'm hoping no one wins and eventually we can all be friends again.
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  Let be clear here though - usually the "alt-right" viewpoints that people are (supposedly) fired for are... violent, or call for discrimination or other things like that. There's no huge threat of people being fired for wanting less regulation on companies.
  - syshum 5y ago
    You say that but I have been called racist, and other *ist's for my basic libertarian views Also there are huge sections of the population (some even on this very forum) that believe calls for deregulation, less government spending, reduction in social programs, etc are "violence" Also people seem to bend over backwards to excuse the real and actual violence that occurs and is supported in authoritarian left circles, pushing the narrative as you have that violence only occurs on the right
  - capableweb 5y ago
    As I don't myself move around in those circles a lot, I can't say "usually" or "typically" because I don't have any insight in those parts. Since you are of a very black & white impression of a large swaths of people, I'm assuming you're in the same boat as me.
    - madeofpalk 5y ago
      What are those wholesome alt-right viewpoints?
      - capableweb 5y ago
        Seems we're already getting a bit heated, as neither you nor I mentioned something about "wholesomeness" but here we are. My point is not that alt-right opinions are wholesome, but rather that since they don't have a lot of places they can write their opinions without getting overrun by opposition, it's only natural they'll retract into properties where they can freely talk. For example: If you're of the opinion that you don't think homosexuality should be legal, there is not a lot of places you could have a factual conversation about that with others, without it ending up in name-calling or huge troll wars. Now I don't agree with that opinion at all (I'm bixsexual myself), but I do agree with the right for those people to hold that opinion and being able to talk with others about this opinion, without it ending up in huge fights and drama. Guess I'm just so far in the "We can educate everyone" camp that the alternatives all seem so fucked up. Hiding people away in separate social medias just make things worse, and all this because people can't ignore others, they _have_ to say something. Just as a quick reminder before people continue the discussion, from the guidelines: > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
        coopierez 5y ago
        > I do agree with the right for those people to hold that opinion and being able to talk with others about this opinion, without it ending up in huge fights and drama. When one has the "opinion" that a group of people should be locked up for simply being who they are, then yes you should expect some backlash for that.
  - xfitm3 5y ago
    You bet your ass people are getting fired for any type of right leaning ideology. Not violence, discrimination, or any other extreme viewpoint.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- blarm 5y ago
  "Alt-left" is not a thing, stop trying to make it a thing. Even Trump abandoned it.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  I think alt-left people just bail on the whole scene, and what remains is Left cesspools; namely Twitter and Reddit.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - wongarsu 5y ago
    That would imply that the world consists only of alt-left and and-right people. In reality the vast majority of people are pretty moderate, and there are far more than two political directions. Most dramas on Twitter or Reddit involve some one- or two-digit number of people that get enormous publicity.
    - brailsafe 5y ago
      I don't think my comment would imply what you describe. I think it would imply at least (but not exclusively) the existence of 4 diffuse groups (Left, alt-left/moderate/centre-leaning-left, alt-right, right), just that Twitter and Reddit are cesspools where the loudest of the Left yell at each other for no other reason than nobody else will listen, because they've all been forced off or quit of their own accord.
- dmos62 5y ago
  I'm of the opinion that ignorance and closed-mindedness is the problem, not what ignorant and closed-minded people come up with. Can't fight fire with fire. That's why I don't think that we should identify them with their ideas. For the purposes of society, their discussions on that site are (supposedly) destructive. That's all the information we need to have a wholesome debate. To withdraw to identifying people with their world-views is to give up on having a meaningful relationship. We do it because we can't tolerate them. The conclusion of that train of reactions is violence.
  - gunshai 5y ago
    It is nice to see this sentiment I hope to continue to see more of it not only in words but action as well. I've been taking a stand in my own life with friends about having hard conversations and not just drinking the coolaid of every inflammatory headline. Its been very difficult to discussing with some friends that their views are far more radical than they realize. Some time these conversations can be agonizing because ultimately you may not care "what side is correct" just that there is an honest discussion about the facts of the matter and even going into the facts of the matter can cause repulsive reactions. Its strange the world we live in, in terms of discussions of ideas.
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    > Can't fight fire with fire That aphorism has never really been true. If it's "fire" in the sense of projectile weapons, then of course you can. If it's "fire" in the sense of "forest fire," a controlled or prescribed burn is an oft-used technique to cut off a forest fire by creating an unburnable zone around it... The fire can't find fuel in an already-burned area, so it can no longer feed itself and dies out.
    - dmos62 5y ago
      Can you fight hatred with hatred? Even if you end up killing those you hated, you'll still be worse off because the whole acting out against others was premised on others being responsible for the hatred you feel, which is false, the hatred is a projection of your own inner turmoil, so you'd still be hateful, and now you've sown the seed of hate yourself. Repeat until convinced. To use your example, it's like fighting fire by putting your hair on fire. It kind of helps, but only in a very perverted sense.
- JeremyNT 5y ago
  This is demonstrably untrue. [0] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/
pessimizer 5y ago
Those places are cesspools because white supremacists are there. A cesspool isn't a cesspool until you fill it with shit.
- newsclues 5y ago
  White supremacists are the only shitty people.
- dmos62 5y ago
  This comment falls way below the standards of this community. If you think that posting something spiteful is a good idea, think again.
ggppp 5y ago
They are cesspools because they are filled with alt-right bigots
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

by dmos62 5y ago

capableweb 5y ago

Of course "cesspool" is bad, "alt-right cesspool" is the same amount of badness. The reason you don't see a lot of "alt-left cesspool"s is because usually those people don't need to hide on alternative social media, as the mainstream ones are fine with alt-left people. Alt-right are the ones who are currently being fired if their opinion are being shared publicly. Now I'm neither of those, and have no fists in the fight at all, but I also realize what the current climate is like, even though I'm hoping no one wins and eventually we can all be friends again.

madeofpalk 5y ago
Let be clear here though - usually the "alt-right" viewpoints that people are (supposedly) fired for are... violent, or call for discrimination or other things like that. There's no huge threat of people being fired for wanting less regulation on companies.
- syshum 5y ago
  You say that but I have been called racist, and other *ist's for my basic libertarian views Also there are huge sections of the population (some even on this very forum) that believe calls for deregulation, less government spending, reduction in social programs, etc are "violence" Also people seem to bend over backwards to excuse the real and actual violence that occurs and is supported in authoritarian left circles, pushing the narrative as you have that violence only occurs on the right
- capableweb 5y ago
  As I don't myself move around in those circles a lot, I can't say "usually" or "typically" because I don't have any insight in those parts. Since you are of a very black & white impression of a large swaths of people, I'm assuming you're in the same boat as me.
  - madeofpalk 5y ago
    What are those wholesome alt-right viewpoints?
    - capableweb 5y ago
      Seems we're already getting a bit heated, as neither you nor I mentioned something about "wholesomeness" but here we are. My point is not that alt-right opinions are wholesome, but rather that since they don't have a lot of places they can write their opinions without getting overrun by opposition, it's only natural they'll retract into properties where they can freely talk. For example: If you're of the opinion that you don't think homosexuality should be legal, there is not a lot of places you could have a factual conversation about that with others, without it ending up in name-calling or huge troll wars. Now I don't agree with that opinion at all (I'm bixsexual myself), but I do agree with the right for those people to hold that opinion and being able to talk with others about this opinion, without it ending up in huge fights and drama. Guess I'm just so far in the "We can educate everyone" camp that the alternatives all seem so fucked up. Hiding people away in separate social medias just make things worse, and all this because people can't ignore others, they _have_ to say something. Just as a quick reminder before people continue the discussion, from the guidelines: > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
      - coopierez 5y ago
        > I do agree with the right for those people to hold that opinion and being able to talk with others about this opinion, without it ending up in huge fights and drama. When one has the "opinion" that a group of people should be locked up for simply being who they are, then yes you should expect some backlash for that.
- xfitm3 5y ago
  You bet your ass people are getting fired for any type of right leaning ideology. Not violence, discrimination, or any other extreme viewpoint.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
blarm 5y ago
"Alt-left" is not a thing, stop trying to make it a thing. Even Trump abandoned it.
brailsafe 5y ago
I think alt-left people just bail on the whole scene, and what remains is Left cesspools; namely Twitter and Reddit.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- wongarsu 5y ago
  That would imply that the world consists only of alt-left and and-right people. In reality the vast majority of people are pretty moderate, and there are far more than two political directions. Most dramas on Twitter or Reddit involve some one- or two-digit number of people that get enormous publicity.
  - brailsafe 5y ago
    I don't think my comment would imply what you describe. I think it would imply at least (but not exclusively) the existence of 4 diffuse groups (Left, alt-left/moderate/centre-leaning-left, alt-right, right), just that Twitter and Reddit are cesspools where the loudest of the Left yell at each other for no other reason than nobody else will listen, because they've all been forced off or quit of their own accord.
dmos62 5y ago
I'm of the opinion that ignorance and closed-mindedness is the problem, not what ignorant and closed-minded people come up with. Can't fight fire with fire. That's why I don't think that we should identify them with their ideas. For the purposes of society, their discussions on that site are (supposedly) destructive. That's all the information we need to have a wholesome debate. To withdraw to identifying people with their world-views is to give up on having a meaningful relationship. We do it because we can't tolerate them. The conclusion of that train of reactions is violence.
- gunshai 5y ago
  It is nice to see this sentiment I hope to continue to see more of it not only in words but action as well. I've been taking a stand in my own life with friends about having hard conversations and not just drinking the coolaid of every inflammatory headline. Its been very difficult to discussing with some friends that their views are far more radical than they realize. Some time these conversations can be agonizing because ultimately you may not care "what side is correct" just that there is an honest discussion about the facts of the matter and even going into the facts of the matter can cause repulsive reactions. Its strange the world we live in, in terms of discussions of ideas.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  > Can't fight fire with fire That aphorism has never really been true. If it's "fire" in the sense of projectile weapons, then of course you can. If it's "fire" in the sense of "forest fire," a controlled or prescribed burn is an oft-used technique to cut off a forest fire by creating an unburnable zone around it... The fire can't find fuel in an already-burned area, so it can no longer feed itself and dies out.
  - dmos62 5y ago
    Can you fight hatred with hatred? Even if you end up killing those you hated, you'll still be worse off because the whole acting out against others was premised on others being responsible for the hatred you feel, which is false, the hatred is a projection of your own inner turmoil, so you'd still be hateful, and now you've sown the seed of hate yourself. Repeat until convinced. To use your example, it's like fighting fire by putting your hair on fire. It kind of helps, but only in a very perverted sense.
JeremyNT 5y ago
This is demonstrably untrue. [0] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/

pessimizer 5y ago

Those places are cesspools because white supremacists are there. A cesspool isn't a cesspool until you fill it with shit.

newsclues 5y ago
White supremacists are the only shitty people.
dmos62 5y ago
This comment falls way below the standards of this community. If you think that posting something spiteful is a good idea, think again.

ggppp 5y ago

They are cesspools because they are filled with alt-right bigots

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]