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> The point of PWA'S are, that if I develope one, I don't have to go to Apples app store. I as a web developer don't know how it works and I don't want to have

by slver 5y ago

> The point of PWA'S are, that if I develope one, I don't have to go to Apples app store. I as a web developer don't know how it works and I don't want to have to know Unfortunately that's often what it comes down to. Developers who don't care about the devices they target and their software stack. Developers should be open to learn new tech, before they reject it. Sure, go the web app route, but don't do it because you look at iOS and the App Store and you "don't know how it works and don't want to have to know". To me it's not surprising Google wants everything to be a browser with rich permissions that easy to track, search index, put ads on and monetize. This is why they want powerful PWA. This is why Chromebooks are basically... a browser. Apple on the other hand has crafted a platform optimized for their philosophy of UX and design. And which is often incompatible with these PWA standards that have emerged, which are often honestly sloppy and indiscriminate in wasting a user's power, bandwidth and leeching their private data. Apple and Google have diametrically opposed goals here. - Apple wants a free and powerful web, but not a web so powerful it takes over your entire phone, because let's face it, the web is a giant balls of kludges, it's a miracle they work at all. - Apple wants to save battery, to value user's privacy, and to allow the device to use its full potential through native APIs that are integrated with hardware functions etc. but not abused (which happens without at least cursory review process). - Google doesn't care about wasting power, doesn't care about privacy, they run an ad business and a search engine. They want three things: 1. Everything everywhere should be the web. 2. The web should have access to everything on your device. 3. Google should own the web.

hutzlibu 5y ago
So you are saying, that I as a Web developer should just become a native app developer? Well no, thanks. I know that native apps are superior in performance over web apps, sure. And I certainly won't say every app has to become a pwa. But for most simple apps, webtechnologies as a plattform are mature and performant enough. And if you never would want to install one - thats your decision. But my decision is, that I don't want to specifically target apple technology. Just like with Microsoft, Samsung, LG, Google or whoever wants to copy apples walled garden. I like plattform independent.
- slver 5y ago
  All right, so you know native apps are better, but you don't care. So you put yourself before your users. But you don't like Apple puts themselves & their users before you. Turns out users should side with Apple in this case...
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    Wow. So we are down to insults? Well then: how about you as a apple user only care about yourself and want every developer to cater for your special needs? And don't care that most of the world has no apple device (and maybe don't want to, or can't afford). And I as a developer want to target a neutral plattform. Because I care about all my potential users and not just apple and android ones. It does not have to be the web. But this is currently the best we have. Feel free to propose a better standard. And like I said: for full performance there are native apps. For best portability there is the web. I like choices.
    - slver 5y ago
      I’m not sure that was an insult. It was just a honest assessment. Everyone cares about themselves. But Apple has to put users before developers.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        "but you don't care. So you put yourself before your users." Sounds like an insult to me. Selfishness is regarded as a bad trait. And I actually do care about other people beyond their money. Which is exactly the reason, why I did not decided to tend to the most lucrative market only: apples walled garden.
      - Jochim 5y ago
        It came off as pretty insulting. You've also been presenting subjective opinion as objective truth when there are many Apple users and developers that disagree with what you're saying. A more cynical take is that Apple want their cut of any revenue that goes through iOS and intentionally hamstrings PWAs at the expense of their users to achieve this. Either or neither could be true.
oblio 5y ago
I'm a user and I want the web to win, not the 100000 walled gardens out there. The web is the truly only open platform that's still alive.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Android devices are actually quite locked down these days it's just that you CAN shut off security features. For example I can't just download APKs in Firefox and install them without flipping a switch which triggers an explicit warning.

by slver 5y ago

hutzlibu 5y ago

So you are saying, that I as a Web developer should just become a native app developer? Well no, thanks. I know that native apps are superior in performance over web apps, sure. And I certainly won't say every app has to become a pwa. But for most simple apps, webtechnologies as a plattform are mature and performant enough. And if you never would want to install one - thats your decision. But my decision is, that I don't want to specifically target apple technology. Just like with Microsoft, Samsung, LG, Google or whoever wants to copy apples walled garden. I like plattform independent.

slver 5y ago
All right, so you know native apps are better, but you don't care. So you put yourself before your users. But you don't like Apple puts themselves & their users before you. Turns out users should side with Apple in this case...
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  Wow. So we are down to insults? Well then: how about you as a apple user only care about yourself and want every developer to cater for your special needs? And don't care that most of the world has no apple device (and maybe don't want to, or can't afford). And I as a developer want to target a neutral plattform. Because I care about all my potential users and not just apple and android ones. It does not have to be the web. But this is currently the best we have. Feel free to propose a better standard. And like I said: for full performance there are native apps. For best portability there is the web. I like choices.
  - slver 5y ago
    I’m not sure that was an insult. It was just a honest assessment. Everyone cares about themselves. But Apple has to put users before developers.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      "but you don't care. So you put yourself before your users." Sounds like an insult to me. Selfishness is regarded as a bad trait. And I actually do care about other people beyond their money. Which is exactly the reason, why I did not decided to tend to the most lucrative market only: apples walled garden.
    - Jochim 5y ago
      It came off as pretty insulting. You've also been presenting subjective opinion as objective truth when there are many Apple users and developers that disagree with what you're saying. A more cynical take is that Apple want their cut of any revenue that goes through iOS and intentionally hamstrings PWAs at the expense of their users to achieve this. Either or neither could be true.

oblio 5y ago

I'm a user and I want the web to win, not the 100000 walled gardens out there. The web is the truly only open platform that's still alive.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

Android devices are actually quite locked down these days it's just that you CAN shut off security features. For example I can't just download APKs in Firefox and install them without flipping a switch which triggers an explicit warning.