5 ms·

> Not many people want to get a job How can one reconcile your hypothesis with the recent employment statistics: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidie

by yokaze 5y ago

> Not many people want to get a job How can one reconcile your hypothesis with the recent employment statistics: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210409/dq210409a-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210409/dq210... There is a clear uptake from record unemployment. Having a good work in your life is still more fulfilling than just leisure for most people, on top of that, you can afford more things. Yes, shitty jobs have trouble finding people. I personally see that not as a downside, but rather an upside of the whole thing.

taurath 5y ago
The solution seems to be to force people back into the shitty jobs by threatening them with starvation rather than improving conditions. Much has been said about how much of a dead end this jobs are but I’d like to reiterate how incredibly difficult it is when you have no time to improve your lot in life. There’s so many statistics about how poverty and poverty jobs are a trap that most never escape in the US compared to other developed countries.
mercer 5y ago
(paid) work or leisure is a false dichotomy. What people want, and what fulfils them, is meaningful activity, not 'work' in itself. Work can provide meaning in various ways (care for colleagues, creative expression, a 'goal' to work towards, etc.) and the idea of having more money can be somewhat meaningful, of course (especially if you really need it!). But there are tons of other meaningful and fulfilling things a person can do with their time, and I'm willing to bet that most people would prefer most of those over having to do 'stuff' for a 'boss/manager' in a hierarchical organization that might (in part) not provide much meaning other than making money for them and hopefully enough for yourself.
- dools 5y ago
  Work is what we do for others. Hobbies are what we do for ourselves. We can widen the definition of work to be far more inclusive, and then structure a program to compensate people for doing that work http://www.jobguarantee.org/ http://www.jobguarantee.org/
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - BurningFrog 5y ago
    > Work is what we do for others. And since others do so much for me, it's only fair that I do something for them.
    - machinebun 5y ago
      Labor used to be directly related to our ability to feed ourselves (when everyone was a farmer / hunter gatherer). No work = no eat. Nowadays, we have more productivity as a species if we do specific labor instead in order to feed ourselves, but the premise is the same. No work = no eat (at least until you have enough savings/investments to afford not to work). At least until theoretically automation takes all of the jobs.
  - mercer 5y ago
    My point was that 'work', doing things that are not leisure (although that distinction can be vague) is not limited to what we generally mean when we say 'job' (paid labor). The role of a mother comes to mind, or retirees who spend time volunteering. Anyways, just clearing that up. I agree that the recipe to happiness probably includes a hefty dose of 'what we do for others'. I don't think I've met a person who was truly happy just slacking off and doing things just for themselves.
- jollybean 5y ago
  'Work' is service to others and the community and is 'meaningful activity' to many people. When it's about 'creative expression' it's really about oneself. If you fill up gas in cars all day, your friend lays brick, someone else logs and mills, another frames ... then that's us working together to create warm homes. So if we can do that without individuals siphoning off the top (or bottom) it works.

by yokaze 5y ago

taurath 5y ago

The solution seems to be to force people back into the shitty jobs by threatening them with starvation rather than improving conditions. Much has been said about how much of a dead end this jobs are but I’d like to reiterate how incredibly difficult it is when you have no time to improve your lot in life. There’s so many statistics about how poverty and poverty jobs are a trap that most never escape in the US compared to other developed countries.

mercer 5y ago

(paid) work or leisure is a false dichotomy. What people want, and what fulfils them, is meaningful activity, not 'work' in itself. Work can provide meaning in various ways (care for colleagues, creative expression, a 'goal' to work towards, etc.) and the idea of having more money can be somewhat meaningful, of course (especially if you really need it!). But there are tons of other meaningful and fulfilling things a person can do with their time, and I'm willing to bet that most people would prefer most of those over having to do 'stuff' for a 'boss/manager' in a hierarchical organization that might (in part) not provide much meaning other than making money for them and hopefully enough for yourself.

dools 5y ago
Work is what we do for others. Hobbies are what we do for ourselves. We can widen the definition of work to be far more inclusive, and then structure a program to compensate people for doing that work http://www.jobguarantee.org/ http://www.jobguarantee.org/
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  > Work is what we do for others. And since others do so much for me, it's only fair that I do something for them.
  - machinebun 5y ago
    Labor used to be directly related to our ability to feed ourselves (when everyone was a farmer / hunter gatherer). No work = no eat. Nowadays, we have more productivity as a species if we do specific labor instead in order to feed ourselves, but the premise is the same. No work = no eat (at least until you have enough savings/investments to afford not to work). At least until theoretically automation takes all of the jobs.
- mercer 5y ago
  My point was that 'work', doing things that are not leisure (although that distinction can be vague) is not limited to what we generally mean when we say 'job' (paid labor). The role of a mother comes to mind, or retirees who spend time volunteering. Anyways, just clearing that up. I agree that the recipe to happiness probably includes a hefty dose of 'what we do for others'. I don't think I've met a person who was truly happy just slacking off and doing things just for themselves.
jollybean 5y ago
'Work' is service to others and the community and is 'meaningful activity' to many people. When it's about 'creative expression' it's really about oneself. If you fill up gas in cars all day, your friend lays brick, someone else logs and mills, another frames ... then that's us working together to create warm homes. So if we can do that without individuals siphoning off the top (or bottom) it works.