3 ms·

If you can't afford to pay more than $7,50 per hour, then the market has spoken: you have no working business model.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rataata_jr 5y ago
What if you are just starting out? Should only the big companies be able to hire workers? Is this tilting the odds in favor of say McD etc?
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  Then it means your working business model relies on VC money or government subsidies. Founders can take the cut but not the employers who don't benefit from it. Isn't the buck supposed to be passed down to the customers, not the workers ?
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  If you can't pay a living wage, don't start or have a business. Period. This isn't a big vs small business debate - small places don't always pay crap wages, and some big places do pay crap wages. Sidenote: A lot of fast food places are franchises, and a franchise might just have one or two. They aren't in any better position than a family-owned fast food place in a small town.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    They're often in a worse-off position, as you can run a family diner with a family; I've seen a number where it's a husband/wife team with maybe one "employee" (as owners don't need to be paid a wage). Franchises usually can't get away with that (maybe Subway could).
    - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
      Sometimes worse off, some aren't. There are different challenges to both models. I was more pointing out that many fast food places aren't exactly a real part of a big international chain, but rather some folks that are paying to use the name and menu. None of this changes my main point, though: If you cannot pay your employees a living wage, you should not run a business.
dehrmann 5y ago
It's $7.50 per hour extra: > Starting June 27, Montanans will lose access to the extra $300 in weekly unemployment benefits, but maintain their regular benefits.
prepend 5y ago
It’s not the $7.50 so much as the $7.50 extra for zero hours. So my calculus is “Would I rather make $300/week for zero hours worked or $600/week for 40 hours worked?” So it’s not just a more money question, but a money vs time issue. It seems rational to me to prefer less money for no work. The problem is that it’s not sustainable as we’re adding debt to pay for it in the short term. This seemed important when work was impossible due to COVID, but now that we’re recovering it’s again possible to work. Is there was a sustainable UBI plan to keep paying for this in the long term, that would be nice.
shin_lao 5y ago
You, the customer, is the person who pays the employee down the road.
COGlory 5y ago
The Wendy's in Bozeman MT is starting at $17/hr. The McDonalds is starting at $15.50. This is not a wages problem. This is a huge influx of wealthy people to the state that aren't working but are taking up property and services problem.
- falcolas 5y ago
  The cost of living in Bozeman is astronomical. $800k single family houses. $1,500 apartments. Even the exorbitant sounding $17 an hour isn’t much of a living wage in Bozeman anymore. Hasn’t been for a decade or more.
  - COGlory 5y ago
    People getting paid entry wage at McDonald's were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Also housing prices are astronomical, but your numbers are a touch high. I believe the median home price is $600k or so.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      > were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Cost of living isn't just "buying a house". It's housing, transportation, clothing, food, etc. > your numbers are a touch high. Nope. I just got a flier that mentioned that the average home price for a townhouse in Belgrade (a "suburb" of Bozeman (which itself only has roughly a 50k population), for those not local) is $765k.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      > entry wage at McDonald's "Entry wage" is a misnomer for jobs like that. There's no advancement at a job like that except to management, and there will always be an order of magnitude fewer managers than workers (and far less turnover.)
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        Not everyone who works at McDonald's is supposed to stay there forever and advance there. In general, you should either be getting a college degree or taking up a skilled trade, and only working at McDonald's until you do.
jonnycomputer 5y ago
Perhaps. But doesn't competition also drive firms to make decisions that rely on such business models? If you leave fiscal room for an increase in the cost of labor, aren't you paying the opportunity cost that will put you at a price disadvantage relative to your competitors? Markets punish inefficiency, even at the price of long term risk.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

What if you are just starting out? Should only the big companies be able to hire workers? Is this tilting the odds in favor of say McD etc?

johnchristopher 5y ago
Then it means your working business model relies on VC money or government subsidies. Founders can take the cut but not the employers who don't benefit from it. Isn't the buck supposed to be passed down to the customers, not the workers ?
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
If you can't pay a living wage, don't start or have a business. Period. This isn't a big vs small business debate - small places don't always pay crap wages, and some big places do pay crap wages. Sidenote: A lot of fast food places are franchises, and a franchise might just have one or two. They aren't in any better position than a family-owned fast food place in a small town.
- bombcar 5y ago
  They're often in a worse-off position, as you can run a family diner with a family; I've seen a number where it's a husband/wife team with maybe one "employee" (as owners don't need to be paid a wage). Franchises usually can't get away with that (maybe Subway could).
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    Sometimes worse off, some aren't. There are different challenges to both models. I was more pointing out that many fast food places aren't exactly a real part of a big international chain, but rather some folks that are paying to use the name and menu. None of this changes my main point, though: If you cannot pay your employees a living wage, you should not run a business.

dehrmann 5y ago

It's $7.50 per hour extra: > Starting June 27, Montanans will lose access to the extra $300 in weekly unemployment benefits, but maintain their regular benefits.

prepend 5y ago

It’s not the $7.50 so much as the $7.50 extra for zero hours. So my calculus is “Would I rather make $300/week for zero hours worked or $600/week for 40 hours worked?” So it’s not just a more money question, but a money vs time issue. It seems rational to me to prefer less money for no work. The problem is that it’s not sustainable as we’re adding debt to pay for it in the short term. This seemed important when work was impossible due to COVID, but now that we’re recovering it’s again possible to work. Is there was a sustainable UBI plan to keep paying for this in the long term, that would be nice.

shin_lao 5y ago

You, the customer, is the person who pays the employee down the road.

COGlory 5y ago

The Wendy's in Bozeman MT is starting at $17/hr. The McDonalds is starting at $15.50. This is not a wages problem. This is a huge influx of wealthy people to the state that aren't working but are taking up property and services problem.

falcolas 5y ago
The cost of living in Bozeman is astronomical. $800k single family houses. $1,500 apartments. Even the exorbitant sounding $17 an hour isn’t much of a living wage in Bozeman anymore. Hasn’t been for a decade or more.
- COGlory 5y ago
  People getting paid entry wage at McDonald's were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Also housing prices are astronomical, but your numbers are a touch high. I believe the median home price is $600k or so.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    > were never supposed to be able to afford a house on that. Cost of living isn't just "buying a house". It's housing, transportation, clothing, food, etc. > your numbers are a touch high. Nope. I just got a flier that mentioned that the average home price for a townhouse in Belgrade (a "suburb" of Bozeman (which itself only has roughly a 50k population), for those not local) is $765k.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    > entry wage at McDonald's "Entry wage" is a misnomer for jobs like that. There's no advancement at a job like that except to management, and there will always be an order of magnitude fewer managers than workers (and far less turnover.)
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Not everyone who works at McDonald's is supposed to stay there forever and advance there. In general, you should either be getting a college degree or taking up a skilled trade, and only working at McDonald's until you do.

jonnycomputer 5y ago

Perhaps. But doesn't competition also drive firms to make decisions that rely on such business models? If you leave fiscal room for an increase in the cost of labor, aren't you paying the opportunity cost that will put you at a price disadvantage relative to your competitors? Markets punish inefficiency, even at the price of long term risk.