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My post wasn't really about esports, but I'm happy to chat about it. Overwatch was built intentionally to be a game that fostered an esports community. Jeff ha

My post wasn't really about esports, but I'm happy to chat about it. Overwatch was built intentionally to be a game that fostered an esports community. Jeff had a big part in the esports aspect of Overwatch in that the game was meant to be their gateway into LoL-esque esports. They wouldn't have made Overwatch at all had they not been interested in getting involved in esports seriously. > I tried to get into Overwatch League, but found it hard to watch. All the rich colors and scenery of the game drowned out by the ugly monochrome of team colors. All the rich sound effects of the game drowned out by the world's most annoying casters. (Seriously, who hired these people!? Are real sports like this?) It sounds like you just don't really like sports/esports. The casters are a big part of the experience. The game would be awful/unwatchable without them. The viewing experience for Overwatch is terrible. There's too much going on, and if you're not actively involved (playing), it's just awful. Colors and lights everywhere, weird sounds, orbs flying all around etc. I think Overwatch is kind of a failure in that regard as well. > Jeff's a good dude, and I do worry about the future of the game without him I suspect there will be massive improvements relatively quickly.

jrockway 5y ago
> It sounds like you just don't really like sports/esports. It's not that exactly. There is much that can be learned from the world's best players training together and performing together against an opponent that does the same. It's just the format is unwatchable. I do find watching sports on TV similarly impossible, whereas watching them in person is much more enjoyable. I mostly watch streams. I don't think solo queue is as interesting a game as full teams playing multiple games together, but you do get to hear one player's thought process, which is always enjoyable. That is probably incompatible with true competition, but is entertaining. I think someone decided what esports should be, and everyone else just copied that, but we haven't actually hit the global maximum for the format quite yet. What's strange is that we often take steps backwards. There was one season when you got the ability to select your own camera angles and chat in a members-only chat, and that was the season that I enjoyed the most. Chatted with the regulars in there, got to watch whatever player I personally felt was most interesting to watch (usually Jjonak fragging people as Zen), etc. Then they removed that, as well as the ability to pay them extra for the privilege. Strange decision! > The viewing experience for Overwatch is terrible. There's too much going on, and if you're not actively involved (playing), it's just awful. Colors and lights everywhere, weird sounds, orbs flying all around etc. I think Overwatch is kind of a failure in that regard as well. I hear that a lot, but don't really have a problem with it myself. The thing that gets me whether I'm playing or not is when people use an ultimate at some range outside your current camera position, and it's totally silent and you have no way of knowing that they used it. There was a time when ults were map global sounds, and that got patched out for no apparent reason, and it's never really been discussed as a problem. But I think it's weird to play around a Zarya with grav when she just used it to kill some Wrecking Ball over in Narnia. Why punish players that are tracking ults? Never made sense to me.
Jackpillar 5y ago
Agree wholeheartedly on the viewing experience. I'm curious as to how the largely unenjoyable viewing experience for an average gamer has to do with OW's dying popularity. I know Twitch isn't the best canary in a coal mine for the popularity of a game but it definitely is one of many signs. OW has had lower viewership than like Rainbow Six and Dead by Daylight and other games who haven't put a billion $$ in funding behind their pro scenes for better part of a year now. Getting absolutely blown out of the water by Fortnite/Valorant/COD/Apex Legends and other games you would consider in their competitive space. I consider myself to be a pretty heavy gamer, played OW casually in the past but mainly Apex now. I used to go to Blizzard Studios in Burbank to watch OWL with my wife as she was a huge fan (funk pops and all that) and holy shit, even being a causal player of OW, trying to understand what is going on at all times and trying to glean any semblance of "exciting plays" or "clutch moments" from the pro gameplay is virtually impossible. The gameplay is essentially an unintelligible explosion of colors, sounds, and strategies that brings you to the brink of a seizure before ending for indiscernible reasons because it's impossible for the camera to view the important elements of the match at once. This is in comparison to the popular competitors currently beating them in Twitch viewership above. I watched competitive Apex before playing it and it just made sense. Teams of 3, battle royale, they have different powers, now go survive. Done, easy. Same with COD, Valorant falls inline more with CS:GO which is equally understandable. All of which are proving to have more staying power than OW.
- void_mint 5y ago
  Yep. It doesn't help that Overwatch at the pro level looks nothing like ladder play, so even casual players won't see something they understand when watching an OWL match. I think esports are best suited for games that are slower paced (LoL, DOTA, CS:GO) or easier to understand (CoD, Rocket League). Overwatch is a game that is very fast paced (Dive fights took like, 2 seconds from start to finish), and doesn't really have analogues in real life, so it's harder to connect with or intuit.

jrockway 5y ago

> It sounds like you just don't really like sports/esports. It's not that exactly. There is much that can be learned from the world's best players training together and performing together against an opponent that does the same. It's just the format is unwatchable. I do find watching sports on TV similarly impossible, whereas watching them in person is much more enjoyable. I mostly watch streams. I don't think solo queue is as interesting a game as full teams playing multiple games together, but you do get to hear one player's thought process, which is always enjoyable. That is probably incompatible with true competition, but is entertaining. I think someone decided what esports should be, and everyone else just copied that, but we haven't actually hit the global maximum for the format quite yet. What's strange is that we often take steps backwards. There was one season when you got the ability to select your own camera angles and chat in a members-only chat, and that was the season that I enjoyed the most. Chatted with the regulars in there, got to watch whatever player I personally felt was most interesting to watch (usually Jjonak fragging people as Zen), etc. Then they removed that, as well as the ability to pay them extra for the privilege. Strange decision! > The viewing experience for Overwatch is terrible. There's too much going on, and if you're not actively involved (playing), it's just awful. Colors and lights everywhere, weird sounds, orbs flying all around etc. I think Overwatch is kind of a failure in that regard as well. I hear that a lot, but don't really have a problem with it myself. The thing that gets me whether I'm playing or not is when people use an ultimate at some range outside your current camera position, and it's totally silent and you have no way of knowing that they used it. There was a time when ults were map global sounds, and that got patched out for no apparent reason, and it's never really been discussed as a problem. But I think it's weird to play around a Zarya with grav when she just used it to kill some Wrecking Ball over in Narnia. Why punish players that are tracking ults? Never made sense to me.

Jackpillar 5y ago

Agree wholeheartedly on the viewing experience. I'm curious as to how the largely unenjoyable viewing experience for an average gamer has to do with OW's dying popularity. I know Twitch isn't the best canary in a coal mine for the popularity of a game but it definitely is one of many signs. OW has had lower viewership than like Rainbow Six and Dead by Daylight and other games who haven't put a billion $$ in funding behind their pro scenes for better part of a year now. Getting absolutely blown out of the water by Fortnite/Valorant/COD/Apex Legends and other games you would consider in their competitive space. I consider myself to be a pretty heavy gamer, played OW casually in the past but mainly Apex now. I used to go to Blizzard Studios in Burbank to watch OWL with my wife as she was a huge fan (funk pops and all that) and holy shit, even being a causal player of OW, trying to understand what is going on at all times and trying to glean any semblance of "exciting plays" or "clutch moments" from the pro gameplay is virtually impossible. The gameplay is essentially an unintelligible explosion of colors, sounds, and strategies that brings you to the brink of a seizure before ending for indiscernible reasons because it's impossible for the camera to view the important elements of the match at once. This is in comparison to the popular competitors currently beating them in Twitch viewership above. I watched competitive Apex before playing it and it just made sense. Teams of 3, battle royale, they have different powers, now go survive. Done, easy. Same with COD, Valorant falls inline more with CS:GO which is equally understandable. All of which are proving to have more staying power than OW.

void_mint 5y ago
Yep. It doesn't help that Overwatch at the pro level looks nothing like ladder play, so even casual players won't see something they understand when watching an OWL match. I think esports are best suited for games that are slower paced (LoL, DOTA, CS:GO) or easier to understand (CoD, Rocket League). Overwatch is a game that is very fast paced (Dive fights took like, 2 seconds from start to finish), and doesn't really have analogues in real life, so it's harder to connect with or intuit.