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But without the limiting anti compete clauses like California does, it's basically toothless. At least in NC I was informed by lawyers I hired that my employer

But without the limiting anti compete clauses like California does, it's basically toothless. At least in NC I was informed by lawyers I hired that my employer wouldn't let me moonlight in a 500 mile radius, as while they wouldn't own the output. any software was considered "in competition".

Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
This only seems enforceable insofar as your legal funds are less than your employers, or the supreme court continues to be a federalist controlled mafia.
kentonv 5y ago
Hmm that doesn't really make sense to me. If the software you were writing while moonlighting is competitive with your employer then it seems like the IP ownership law wouldn't cover it -- your employer could in fact claim ownership. So the non-compete doesn't matter and the outcome is the same in either CA or NC. But I'm not a lawyer and I'm sure the lawyer you hired knows better than me. (FWIW I think this is fair. You shouldn't be allowed to compete with your employer while still employed by them, as this creates a massive conflict of interest. Though if your employer is claiming that any and all software you write "competes" with them then that is obviously BS...)
- codemac 5y ago
  The point being that in NC, at the time they were allowed to write non-compete clauses that functioned as any software written in a 500 mile radius was considered competing. I worked on enterprise data storage operating systems, and I wanted to work on a personal phone application in my off hours.
  - kentonv 5y ago
    OK yeah that sounds like BS. Does that basically mean you can't even change employers unless you move 500 miles away? And what even is the significance of 500 miles when it comes to software?
    - codemac 5y ago
      Re employment: The standard move for these companies was to basically auto-file a lawsuit if you were over a certain title threshold, and below they didn't do much. All the execs I knew would take a one year "vacation" and magically start work exactly 365 days later at the new company. It didn't affect rank and file except for this moonlighting + competition combo. Re significance of 500 miles, state courts generally ruled that was a reasonable distance for non compete at the time, and so your company's lawyers would put together the most conservative contract that was borderline. I'm very glad to have left that employment market, it was clear why startups never seemed to start in RTP unless they came out of Universities, specifically because of these huge liabilities for any investor. It's a shame, because the area now just waits for the next globo corp to open a remote office, rather than anything starting locally.
      - unityByFreedom 5y ago
        That is enlightening. RTP had otherwise looked to me like a decent place to work as a developer.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago

This only seems enforceable insofar as your legal funds are less than your employers, or the supreme court continues to be a federalist controlled mafia.

kentonv 5y ago

Hmm that doesn't really make sense to me. If the software you were writing while moonlighting is competitive with your employer then it seems like the IP ownership law wouldn't cover it -- your employer could in fact claim ownership. So the non-compete doesn't matter and the outcome is the same in either CA or NC. But I'm not a lawyer and I'm sure the lawyer you hired knows better than me. (FWIW I think this is fair. You shouldn't be allowed to compete with your employer while still employed by them, as this creates a massive conflict of interest. Though if your employer is claiming that any and all software you write "competes" with them then that is obviously BS...)

codemac 5y ago
The point being that in NC, at the time they were allowed to write non-compete clauses that functioned as any software written in a 500 mile radius was considered competing. I worked on enterprise data storage operating systems, and I wanted to work on a personal phone application in my off hours.
- kentonv 5y ago
  OK yeah that sounds like BS. Does that basically mean you can't even change employers unless you move 500 miles away? And what even is the significance of 500 miles when it comes to software?
  - codemac 5y ago
    Re employment: The standard move for these companies was to basically auto-file a lawsuit if you were over a certain title threshold, and below they didn't do much. All the execs I knew would take a one year "vacation" and magically start work exactly 365 days later at the new company. It didn't affect rank and file except for this moonlighting + competition combo. Re significance of 500 miles, state courts generally ruled that was a reasonable distance for non compete at the time, and so your company's lawyers would put together the most conservative contract that was borderline. I'm very glad to have left that employment market, it was clear why startups never seemed to start in RTP unless they came out of Universities, specifically because of these huge liabilities for any investor. It's a shame, because the area now just waits for the next globo corp to open a remote office, rather than anything starting locally.
    - unityByFreedom 5y ago
      That is enlightening. RTP had otherwise looked to me like a decent place to work as a developer.