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> If you had a capitalist healthcare system like the US, that would not give you a better vaccine rollout. Actually, it would and that's what happened in the U

> If you had a capitalist healthcare system like the US, that would not give you a better vaccine rollout. Actually, it would and that's what happened in the US. We had the private facilities and the drug tech to make it happen and that's due in part to not having an entirely socialized medical system. Like it or not money incentivizes drug research. I don't know how you could claim that if Canada had the ability to mass produce the vaccine like the US did that they wouldn't be ahead in their rollout. Canada had the extra step of trying to figure where they were going to get their vaccines and when since they didn't have the ability to create it in country. That's a massive disadvantage.

naturalauction 5y ago
On the other hand, here in the UK - the socialized healthcare system is making it much easier to ensure doses get to people who need them. Something like 95% of over 50s have gotten their first dose. While I may not like it, the vaccine rollout is slowly going down the age ranges (40+ and vulnerable people are eligible now), and your doctor will let you know when you can book an appointment. I think that this helps ensure that there is less inequality in vaccine access. The AZ vaccine was also researched in the UK, with lots of production here too. That especially surprising considering very little vaccine production happened here before COVID. What is probably hurting Canada is their small population, making researching and producing their own vaccine much more difficult.
- TMWNN 5y ago
  >On the other hand, here in the UK - the socialized healthcare system is making it much easier to ensure doses get to people who need them. Something like 95% of over 50s have gotten their first dose. While I may not like it, the vaccine rollout is slowly going down the age ranges (40+ and vulnerable people are eligible now) Vaccines are available for all Americans 16 and older. I'm not sure when this occurred nationwide, but California made vaccines avaiable to everyone 16 and older since April 15, and other states did so before then. >The AZ vaccine was also researched in the UK, with lots of production here too. That especially surprising considering very little vaccine production happened here before COVID. The UK invested a lot of money to build plants during the past year. >What is probably hurting Canada is their small population, making researching and producing their own vaccine much more difficult. Canada produces a lot of vaccines; just not the types appropriate to convert to COVID19 shots.
  - naturalauction 5y ago
    >Vaccines are available for all Americans 16 and older. I'm not sure when this occurred nationwide, but California made vaccines avaiable to everyone 16 and older since April 15, and other states did so before then. Despite the vaccine not being available to many people in the UK (people aged 16-40) that a greater percentage of adults in the UK have received at least one dose. Some of that can be attributed to lower rates of vaccine hesitancy, but some of it is surely related to the NHS being better at outreach than the fragmented healthcare system in the US.
    - TMWNN 5y ago
      >Despite the vaccine not being available to many people in the UK (people aged 16-40) that a greater percentage of adults in the UK have received at least one dose. Most countries have prioritizing giving one dose to as many as possible first and delaying the second dose, believing that doing so is preferable to prioritizing second doses when the goal is the most widespread (as opposed to optimal per person) immunity possible. The US hasn't had to do this because it bought enough vaccines last year for every American from each of the countries working on a vaccine, leading to the current luxury of being able to schedule second does at the recommended interval. The UK is in better shape than the EU or Canada but does not have as much as the US, leading to its strategy. >Some of that can be attributed to lower rates of vaccine hesitancy Vaccine hesitancy in the UK is unusually low, I agree, based on the YouGov data I've seen, but overall anti-vaccine sentiment is higher in Europe than in the US. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2021/03/08/covid-19-vaccine-hesitancy-is-worse-in-eu-than-us/?sh=22d7ce58611f https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2021/03/08/covid-19... >but some of it is surely related to the NHS being better at outreach than the fragmented healthcare system in the US. There is no evidence of this. In the US, it is impossible to go anywhere without hearing or seeing vaccine offers. In addition to government- and hospital-run mass vaccination sites, every chain pharmacy offers vaccination at every location including Walgreens. Meanwhile, Walgreens' UK affiliate Boots only offers vaccination at 17 locations (https://www.boots.com/health-pharmacy/covid-19-information-products-and-testing/covid-vaccination https://www.boots.com/health-pharmacy/covid-19-information-p...). Superdrug offers it at a handful of locations as well. (https://www.superdrug.com/corona-update/faq https://www.superdrug.com/corona-update/faq)
1shooner 5y ago
I think you're conflated 'socialized' with 'nationalized'. The vaccine research and deployment was motivated by profit, but the US government was the one of the only customers. The beneficiaries were the citizens, based on need rather than their available excess capital. That sounds unlike normal US 'capitalist' healthcare, and very much like socialized healthcare.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Yes but the reason the US has these massive drug manufacturers and leads in drug research is not due to socialized healthcare at all. It's purely profit driven.

naturalauction 5y ago

On the other hand, here in the UK - the socialized healthcare system is making it much easier to ensure doses get to people who need them. Something like 95% of over 50s have gotten their first dose. While I may not like it, the vaccine rollout is slowly going down the age ranges (40+ and vulnerable people are eligible now), and your doctor will let you know when you can book an appointment. I think that this helps ensure that there is less inequality in vaccine access. The AZ vaccine was also researched in the UK, with lots of production here too. That especially surprising considering very little vaccine production happened here before COVID. What is probably hurting Canada is their small population, making researching and producing their own vaccine much more difficult.

TMWNN 5y ago
>On the other hand, here in the UK - the socialized healthcare system is making it much easier to ensure doses get to people who need them. Something like 95% of over 50s have gotten their first dose. While I may not like it, the vaccine rollout is slowly going down the age ranges (40+ and vulnerable people are eligible now) Vaccines are available for all Americans 16 and older. I'm not sure when this occurred nationwide, but California made vaccines avaiable to everyone 16 and older since April 15, and other states did so before then. >The AZ vaccine was also researched in the UK, with lots of production here too. That especially surprising considering very little vaccine production happened here before COVID. The UK invested a lot of money to build plants during the past year. >What is probably hurting Canada is their small population, making researching and producing their own vaccine much more difficult. Canada produces a lot of vaccines; just not the types appropriate to convert to COVID19 shots.
- naturalauction 5y ago
  >Vaccines are available for all Americans 16 and older. I'm not sure when this occurred nationwide, but California made vaccines avaiable to everyone 16 and older since April 15, and other states did so before then. Despite the vaccine not being available to many people in the UK (people aged 16-40) that a greater percentage of adults in the UK have received at least one dose. Some of that can be attributed to lower rates of vaccine hesitancy, but some of it is surely related to the NHS being better at outreach than the fragmented healthcare system in the US.
  - TMWNN 5y ago
    >Despite the vaccine not being available to many people in the UK (people aged 16-40) that a greater percentage of adults in the UK have received at least one dose. Most countries have prioritizing giving one dose to as many as possible first and delaying the second dose, believing that doing so is preferable to prioritizing second doses when the goal is the most widespread (as opposed to optimal per person) immunity possible. The US hasn't had to do this because it bought enough vaccines last year for every American from each of the countries working on a vaccine, leading to the current luxury of being able to schedule second does at the recommended interval. The UK is in better shape than the EU or Canada but does not have as much as the US, leading to its strategy. >Some of that can be attributed to lower rates of vaccine hesitancy Vaccine hesitancy in the UK is unusually low, I agree, based on the YouGov data I've seen, but overall anti-vaccine sentiment is higher in Europe than in the US. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2021/03/08/covid-19-vaccine-hesitancy-is-worse-in-eu-than-us/?sh=22d7ce58611f https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2021/03/08/covid-19... >but some of it is surely related to the NHS being better at outreach than the fragmented healthcare system in the US. There is no evidence of this. In the US, it is impossible to go anywhere without hearing or seeing vaccine offers. In addition to government- and hospital-run mass vaccination sites, every chain pharmacy offers vaccination at every location including Walgreens. Meanwhile, Walgreens' UK affiliate Boots only offers vaccination at 17 locations (https://www.boots.com/health-pharmacy/covid-19-information-products-and-testing/covid-vaccination https://www.boots.com/health-pharmacy/covid-19-information-p...). Superdrug offers it at a handful of locations as well. (https://www.superdrug.com/corona-update/faq https://www.superdrug.com/corona-update/faq)

1shooner 5y ago

I think you're conflated 'socialized' with 'nationalized'. The vaccine research and deployment was motivated by profit, but the US government was the one of the only customers. The beneficiaries were the citizens, based on need rather than their available excess capital. That sounds unlike normal US 'capitalist' healthcare, and very much like socialized healthcare.

CountDrewku 5y ago
Yes but the reason the US has these massive drug manufacturers and leads in drug research is not due to socialized healthcare at all. It's purely profit driven.