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This is really stupid. Most people do not need to be in an office to get work done. Google, and all these other tech companies, made record profits this year.

This is really stupid. Most people do not need to be in an office to get work done. Google, and all these other tech companies, made record profits this year. I just don't get why they insist on keeping people in a seat? At least for google, offering all these on-site only perks is just a scheme to keep employees at work for as long as possible.

davidmargolin 5y ago
did you even read it? Google is committing to offering fully remote opportunities now.
- covfefeblack 5y ago
  Some remote opportunities*
- ssharp 5y ago
  They are offering some, whereas other roles are clearly needing to adapt to some consistent in-office time. It will be interesting to see how all this ultimately plays out. My best guess is that companies like Shopify, who are fully committing to remote work, with in-office options, are going to end up with better retention. However, it also seems plausible that places requiring in-office schedules will simply attract people wanting that and the places offering remote will attract people wanting that. From what I see, there is a pretty clear line in the sand between folks that want an office and folks that don't. While a 3/2 hybrid schedule may be better than in the office 5 days a week, it's still quite a bit worse than being remote 5 days a week if that's your preference. I've been working remotely for the past three years and it's crazy to think back how relatively rare of an opportunity it was when I started doing it. It's everywhere now and a ton of people across the world have gotten the opportunity to try it out. You hear a lot about how COVID accelerated a lot transformations by 3-5 years. I think it accelerated remote work by at least a decade, probably more.
- wildrhythms 5y ago
  Why not give employees the choice? Google already claims to hire 'the best'; do they not trust 'the best' to capably manage their own productivity wrt wherever they decide to work?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Smaug123 5y ago
    Well, it's explicitly stated that productivity is not their top priority, right? "We’ll move to a hybrid work week where most Googlers spend approximately three days in the office and two days wherever they work best." That's an explicit recognition that they're expecting not to get the best work from a bunch of people for approximately three days a week; presumably senior management is fine with this, or they wouldn't have done it or said it.
    - gjm11 5y ago
      They're explicitly recognizing that for three days a week, a bunch of people will not be where they individually work best. That doesn't necessarily mean their top priority isn't productivity, because the productivity of an organization is not simply the sum of the individual, independent productivities of its members. They may, for instance, believe something along the following lines. 1. All else being equal, most people are more productive individually at home than in the office. 2. Individuals' productivity in the office is higher when other people are also in the office, because they can cooperate. 3. Individuals' productivity is better directed (i.e., the stuff they're productive at is a better match for the actual needs of the company) if at least some of the time they're physically in the same place as their colleagues. Without that, they may work more efficiently but they are less likely to be working on the right things. 4. Because of 3 (backed up by 2) the amount of value provided to the company is greater when employees spend some time together in the office. Whether any of that is actually true is another matter. And of course they may also just like the power-trip of seeing all their minions working busily. But it's not true that the words you quoted have to mean that productivity isn't what they care about most. (In case it matters to anyone: I am not a Googler, have no interest in watching minions working busily and furthermore have no minions, and much prefer working from home though whether I'm actually more productive there I don't know.)
- tdeck 5y ago
  Just a friendly reminder that the HN site guidelines discourage comments that ask "did you even read it?" https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
eweise 5y ago
Aside from jobs that actually need to be done in person, I think it really comes down to leadership egos. Probably just feels good to walk by a sea of minions on your way to the corner office.
- xyzelement 5y ago
  Yup that's exactly right. Google classifies office leases as "Ego stroking and miscellaneous". It's right there in the SEC filings.
  - dboreham 5y ago
    Everyone interprets fancy office buildings in all industries in this context.
  - mikeodds 5y ago
    Can you link this? I tried finding it
    - mycologos 5y ago
      (The parent comment is a joke.)
      - mikeodds 5y ago
        WeWork’s S1 has distorted my ability to detect satire apparently.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  In my experience at google, vps don’t have corner offices.
joshuamorton 5y ago
> I just don't get why they insist on keeping people in a seat? At least for google, offering all these on-site only perks is just a scheme to keep employees at work for as long as possible. Fwiw I find the opposite to be true: I have had a much easier time disconnecting from work when my workspace wasn't in my bedroom.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jayd16 5y ago
If you're right, then wfh companies will out compete the rest and there's nothing to worry about. My guess is there are a lot of benefits to face to face communication and the separation of work and home but we'll just have to see.
remir 5y ago
Well 60% of their workers chose to come back to the office. I guess not everybody likes working from home full time. Google can't really ignore that.
- srinivgp 5y ago
  How many of those are quite aware that if they don't choose, they're on the chopping block? So far I've known exactly two people who actually want to return to the office more than just like once in a while for fun, regardless of what they tell their boss. And one shouldn't count much because she also is going to retire shortly. I'm pretty sure I'm an outlier but not a "no really it's 60%" outlier.
  - solipsism 5y ago
    Google has never had a chopping block. And your speculations are wild. But hey, at least you have those two anecdotes.
    - tdeck 5y ago
      The Google equivalent of a chipping block in most cases is not getting promoted. But Google has a very level-focused culture and many Googlers are highly motivated to keep getting promotions, so the incentives are there.
      - solipsism 5y ago
        The Google equivalent of a chipping block in most cases is not getting promoted Do tell, given what you know about the Google promotion process, how a choice to work remotely would translate to a decreased likelihood to be promoted (and, importantly, to an unfair degree)?
        yamellasmallela 5y ago
        If you don't get promotions you lose certain stock grants which greatly reduces your pay The entire system is a scam and built specifically to keep you at google and drinking the kool aid

davidmargolin 5y ago

did you even read it? Google is committing to offering fully remote opportunities now.

covfefeblack 5y ago
Some remote opportunities*
ssharp 5y ago
They are offering some, whereas other roles are clearly needing to adapt to some consistent in-office time. It will be interesting to see how all this ultimately plays out. My best guess is that companies like Shopify, who are fully committing to remote work, with in-office options, are going to end up with better retention. However, it also seems plausible that places requiring in-office schedules will simply attract people wanting that and the places offering remote will attract people wanting that. From what I see, there is a pretty clear line in the sand between folks that want an office and folks that don't. While a 3/2 hybrid schedule may be better than in the office 5 days a week, it's still quite a bit worse than being remote 5 days a week if that's your preference. I've been working remotely for the past three years and it's crazy to think back how relatively rare of an opportunity it was when I started doing it. It's everywhere now and a ton of people across the world have gotten the opportunity to try it out. You hear a lot about how COVID accelerated a lot transformations by 3-5 years. I think it accelerated remote work by at least a decade, probably more.
wildrhythms 5y ago
Why not give employees the choice? Google already claims to hire 'the best'; do they not trust 'the best' to capably manage their own productivity wrt wherever they decide to work?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Smaug123 5y ago
  Well, it's explicitly stated that productivity is not their top priority, right? "We’ll move to a hybrid work week where most Googlers spend approximately three days in the office and two days wherever they work best." That's an explicit recognition that they're expecting not to get the best work from a bunch of people for approximately three days a week; presumably senior management is fine with this, or they wouldn't have done it or said it.
  - gjm11 5y ago
    They're explicitly recognizing that for three days a week, a bunch of people will not be where they individually work best. That doesn't necessarily mean their top priority isn't productivity, because the productivity of an organization is not simply the sum of the individual, independent productivities of its members. They may, for instance, believe something along the following lines. 1. All else being equal, most people are more productive individually at home than in the office. 2. Individuals' productivity in the office is higher when other people are also in the office, because they can cooperate. 3. Individuals' productivity is better directed (i.e., the stuff they're productive at is a better match for the actual needs of the company) if at least some of the time they're physically in the same place as their colleagues. Without that, they may work more efficiently but they are less likely to be working on the right things. 4. Because of 3 (backed up by 2) the amount of value provided to the company is greater when employees spend some time together in the office. Whether any of that is actually true is another matter. And of course they may also just like the power-trip of seeing all their minions working busily. But it's not true that the words you quoted have to mean that productivity isn't what they care about most. (In case it matters to anyone: I am not a Googler, have no interest in watching minions working busily and furthermore have no minions, and much prefer working from home though whether I'm actually more productive there I don't know.)
tdeck 5y ago
Just a friendly reminder that the HN site guidelines discourage comments that ask "did you even read it?" https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

eweise 5y ago

Aside from jobs that actually need to be done in person, I think it really comes down to leadership egos. Probably just feels good to walk by a sea of minions on your way to the corner office.

xyzelement 5y ago
Yup that's exactly right. Google classifies office leases as "Ego stroking and miscellaneous". It's right there in the SEC filings.
- dboreham 5y ago
  Everyone interprets fancy office buildings in all industries in this context.
- mikeodds 5y ago
  Can you link this? I tried finding it
  - mycologos 5y ago
    (The parent comment is a joke.)
    - mikeodds 5y ago
      WeWork’s S1 has distorted my ability to detect satire apparently.
UncleMeat 5y ago
In my experience at google, vps don’t have corner offices.

joshuamorton 5y ago

> I just don't get why they insist on keeping people in a seat? At least for google, offering all these on-site only perks is just a scheme to keep employees at work for as long as possible. Fwiw I find the opposite to be true: I have had a much easier time disconnecting from work when my workspace wasn't in my bedroom.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jayd16 5y ago

If you're right, then wfh companies will out compete the rest and there's nothing to worry about. My guess is there are a lot of benefits to face to face communication and the separation of work and home but we'll just have to see.

remir 5y ago

Well 60% of their workers chose to come back to the office. I guess not everybody likes working from home full time. Google can't really ignore that.

srinivgp 5y ago
How many of those are quite aware that if they don't choose, they're on the chopping block? So far I've known exactly two people who actually want to return to the office more than just like once in a while for fun, regardless of what they tell their boss. And one shouldn't count much because she also is going to retire shortly. I'm pretty sure I'm an outlier but not a "no really it's 60%" outlier.
- solipsism 5y ago
  Google has never had a chopping block. And your speculations are wild. But hey, at least you have those two anecdotes.
  - tdeck 5y ago
    The Google equivalent of a chipping block in most cases is not getting promoted. But Google has a very level-focused culture and many Googlers are highly motivated to keep getting promotions, so the incentives are there.
    - solipsism 5y ago
      The Google equivalent of a chipping block in most cases is not getting promoted Do tell, given what you know about the Google promotion process, how a choice to work remotely would translate to a decreased likelihood to be promoted (and, importantly, to an unfair degree)?
      - yamellasmallela 5y ago
        If you don't get promotions you lose certain stock grants which greatly reduces your pay The entire system is a scam and built specifically to keep you at google and drinking the kool aid