5 ms·

It would be great to get perspective from Canadians on the case. Why is Canada, a country with wealth, in the current situation? national health agency failure

It would be great to get perspective from Canadians on the case. Why is Canada, a country with wealth, in the current situation? national health agency failure in planning? supply chain constraints? Import constraints (even though there are plenty across the border?)? Something else?

kuschku 6y ago
The US doesn't export any COVID vaccines. Neither does the UK. Pretty much the entire rest of the world is supplied by Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. (Russia and China are exceptions in that they have their own, separate vaccines).
- __s 6y ago
  Russia's exporting theirs: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123927/sputnik-v-exports-from-russia-by-country https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123927/sputnik-v-export... China's also exporting their sinovac vaccine
  - kuschku 6y ago
    That's correct, but Russia's vaccine isn't approved in most countries as every batch so far has had very unreliable QC with significantly different results. As I said, those are exceptions, the vast majority has no option other than to wait for the US to slowly start exporting, or use the european sources.
- CubsFan1060 6y ago
  This article indicates the US is exporting vaccines: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-export-us-made-covid-19-shots-canada-starting-next-week-2021-04-30/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...
  - kuschku 6y ago
    We discussed this already in our other comment chain in this thread :)
    - CubsFan1060 6y ago
      Yes. I just think it's important to have accurate information.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  I’m sure you’ll see that change as J&J ramps up. The supply chain around Pfizer is very difficult. Export beyond Canada in volume sounds like a tough proposition (it requires a dry ice cold chain). But.. two dose requirements don’t work for hesitant populations, which is where the US is now. I would guess that US demand for Pfizer will drop and exports of Pfizer to Canada will happen as J&J is deployed more. (At least until kids can get Pfizer)
mynegation 6y ago
1. We do not have our own plants capable of producing covid vaccines. 2. United States stopped all vaccine exports. We got all vaccines from Europe. 3. We did not pay producers through the nose like UK or Israel did which affected our place in the queue. 4. Production scale ups and problems in January-February slowed down the shipments significantly relative to what was promised by producers.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  > 3. We did not pay producers through the nose like UK or Israel did which affected our place in the queue. This is obviously a huge mistake when the vaccines basically pay for themselves.
  - huffmsa 6y ago
    Same mistake the EU made. Very little understanding of what they're actually getting.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    Although from what i understand you had to buy them before they figured out if they worked. So either hope you get lucky with what one you buy, or pay through the nose for all of them which is cost prohibitive.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      Cost prohibitive but still net revenue positive to governments, even with that uncertainty.
- TMWNN 6y ago
  >2. United States stopped all vaccine exports. There has never been a US vaccine ban (see my comment elsewhere). The US did, in fact, pay every pharmaceutical company with a vaccine in development huge amounts of money for enough doses for the entire country from each company. Basically, the US was the firstest with the mostest. >We got all vaccines from Europe. ... because Canada's bet on CanSino failed.
rched 6y ago
Short answer: import constraints. Canada, like many countries, does not have the capacity to manufacture vaccines at scale. Our vaccine supply comes from over seas. Up to now the United States has not allowed vaccines to be exported to other countries so most of them come from Europe.
elevenoh 6y ago
Canada's bureaucrats & credentialled-positions are too far removed from competition / market pressure. The decisions & results reflect this.
totony 6y ago
>national health agency failure in planning? >supply chain constraints? Those two mainly. We don't have the supply to vaccinate efficiently and the health agency has had poor reaction to the virus and poor planning in the past for these kinds of events.
bawolff 6y ago
Isn't canada third per capita of G8 countries in terms of vaccine? Canada is roughly in the same situation as every wealthy country that isn't usa, uk or israel (excluding tiny countries).
cayleyh 6y ago
In addition to the supply constraint that has also been mentioned, there is a lack of political will to target vaccines in the hot spots. In Canada, health care delivery is a Provincial responsibility. However, the Federal government is the one procuring the vaccine doses. The Feds are distributing doses to the provinces based on the population-based formula all the Provinces could agree to. And the Provinces are then incentivized to get into arms locally to show they're doing something. It appears there is no political will or strong enough incentives available to change the dose distribution to be "needs-based". The result is that we're unable to target vaccination to the cities and provinces that need it most, so those places are now responding with a 3rd wave of lock downs to prevent the spike in hospitalizations.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  In other words, all of the provinces are getting it equally, but most of the demand is in the big cities, esp. the GTA area where like 40% of Canadians live.
  - cayleyh 6y ago
    Not quite - They're getting it equal based on population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_data/Canada_vaccinations_by_province https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_dat...). Ontario and QB are getting far more doses than Nova Scotia, for example. But the hot spots are in some major cities and there appears to be no way to divert the NS vaccine to the GTA, even for a short time. And demand isn't in all of the big cities. Just the ones where the provincial governments went early on removing all restrictions on high-contagion events (ie. indoor dining & church-service-like indoor gatherings). Montreal had the largest outbreak per capita of the second wave, and they're doing fine right now because they didn't do these things. And, Ontario itself is only about 38% population of Canada. The GTA is about 18%. Large, but not close to half.
1998v2 6y ago
My best guess: 1. We don't have enough pharma industry to manufacture our own supply. The founder and CEO of the largest Canada HQ'd pharma company was assassinated in 2017 and I'm sure that didn't help. 2. All of the U.S. supply was essentially created under the Trump admin. We were having a mini trade war and enforcing strong border control through that time. In more normal times we probably would have piggybacked on the American supply. I think that is why our overall progress is more comparable to Europe and not the US.
- bckygldstn 6y ago
  >The founder and CEO of the largest Canada HQ'd pharma company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Sherman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Sherman
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    Holy shit, billionaire assassinated in his own home, ongoing investigation but no real leads.
AzzieElbab 6y ago
Canada was simply too late for everything. Wait and see, wait and see, whoops - it is too late. I also suspect that Canada’s low early infection numbers were results of non existing testing.

kuschku 6y ago

The US doesn't export any COVID vaccines. Neither does the UK. Pretty much the entire rest of the world is supplied by Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. (Russia and China are exceptions in that they have their own, separate vaccines).

__s 6y ago
Russia's exporting theirs: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123927/sputnik-v-exports-from-russia-by-country https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123927/sputnik-v-export... China's also exporting their sinovac vaccine
- kuschku 6y ago
  That's correct, but Russia's vaccine isn't approved in most countries as every batch so far has had very unreliable QC with significantly different results. As I said, those are exceptions, the vast majority has no option other than to wait for the US to slowly start exporting, or use the european sources.
CubsFan1060 6y ago
This article indicates the US is exporting vaccines: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-export-us-made-covid-19-shots-canada-starting-next-week-2021-04-30/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...
- kuschku 6y ago
  We discussed this already in our other comment chain in this thread :)
  - CubsFan1060 6y ago
    Yes. I just think it's important to have accurate information.
Spooky23 6y ago
I’m sure you’ll see that change as J&J ramps up. The supply chain around Pfizer is very difficult. Export beyond Canada in volume sounds like a tough proposition (it requires a dry ice cold chain). But.. two dose requirements don’t work for hesitant populations, which is where the US is now. I would guess that US demand for Pfizer will drop and exports of Pfizer to Canada will happen as J&J is deployed more. (At least until kids can get Pfizer)

mynegation 6y ago

1. We do not have our own plants capable of producing covid vaccines. 2. United States stopped all vaccine exports. We got all vaccines from Europe. 3. We did not pay producers through the nose like UK or Israel did which affected our place in the queue. 4. Production scale ups and problems in January-February slowed down the shipments significantly relative to what was promised by producers.

whimsicalism 6y ago
> 3. We did not pay producers through the nose like UK or Israel did which affected our place in the queue. This is obviously a huge mistake when the vaccines basically pay for themselves.
- huffmsa 6y ago
  Same mistake the EU made. Very little understanding of what they're actually getting.
- bawolff 6y ago
  Although from what i understand you had to buy them before they figured out if they worked. So either hope you get lucky with what one you buy, or pay through the nose for all of them which is cost prohibitive.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    Cost prohibitive but still net revenue positive to governments, even with that uncertainty.
TMWNN 6y ago
>2. United States stopped all vaccine exports. There has never been a US vaccine ban (see my comment elsewhere). The US did, in fact, pay every pharmaceutical company with a vaccine in development huge amounts of money for enough doses for the entire country from each company. Basically, the US was the firstest with the mostest. >We got all vaccines from Europe. ... because Canada's bet on CanSino failed.

rched 6y ago

Short answer: import constraints. Canada, like many countries, does not have the capacity to manufacture vaccines at scale. Our vaccine supply comes from over seas. Up to now the United States has not allowed vaccines to be exported to other countries so most of them come from Europe.

elevenoh 6y ago

Canada's bureaucrats & credentialled-positions are too far removed from competition / market pressure. The decisions & results reflect this.

totony 6y ago

>national health agency failure in planning? >supply chain constraints? Those two mainly. We don't have the supply to vaccinate efficiently and the health agency has had poor reaction to the virus and poor planning in the past for these kinds of events.

bawolff 6y ago

Isn't canada third per capita of G8 countries in terms of vaccine? Canada is roughly in the same situation as every wealthy country that isn't usa, uk or israel (excluding tiny countries).

cayleyh 6y ago

In addition to the supply constraint that has also been mentioned, there is a lack of political will to target vaccines in the hot spots. In Canada, health care delivery is a Provincial responsibility. However, the Federal government is the one procuring the vaccine doses. The Feds are distributing doses to the provinces based on the population-based formula all the Provinces could agree to. And the Provinces are then incentivized to get into arms locally to show they're doing something. It appears there is no political will or strong enough incentives available to change the dose distribution to be "needs-based". The result is that we're unable to target vaccination to the cities and provinces that need it most, so those places are now responding with a 3rd wave of lock downs to prevent the spike in hospitalizations.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
blaser-waffle 6y ago
In other words, all of the provinces are getting it equally, but most of the demand is in the big cities, esp. the GTA area where like 40% of Canadians live.
- cayleyh 6y ago
  Not quite - They're getting it equal based on population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_data/Canada_vaccinations_by_province https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_dat...). Ontario and QB are getting far more doses than Nova Scotia, for example. But the hot spots are in some major cities and there appears to be no way to divert the NS vaccine to the GTA, even for a short time. And demand isn't in all of the big cities. Just the ones where the provincial governments went early on removing all restrictions on high-contagion events (ie. indoor dining & church-service-like indoor gatherings). Montreal had the largest outbreak per capita of the second wave, and they're doing fine right now because they didn't do these things. And, Ontario itself is only about 38% population of Canada. The GTA is about 18%. Large, but not close to half.

1998v2 6y ago

My best guess: 1. We don't have enough pharma industry to manufacture our own supply. The founder and CEO of the largest Canada HQ'd pharma company was assassinated in 2017 and I'm sure that didn't help. 2. All of the U.S. supply was essentially created under the Trump admin. We were having a mini trade war and enforcing strong border control through that time. In more normal times we probably would have piggybacked on the American supply. I think that is why our overall progress is more comparable to Europe and not the US.

bckygldstn 6y ago
>The founder and CEO of the largest Canada HQ'd pharma company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Sherman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Sherman
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  Holy shit, billionaire assassinated in his own home, ongoing investigation but no real leads.

AzzieElbab 6y ago

Canada was simply too late for everything. Wait and see, wait and see, whoops - it is too late. I also suspect that Canada’s low early infection numbers were results of non existing testing.