3 ms·

>Personally, I'll measure Canada's performance throughout this pandemic by the final number of per-capita deaths. How about in relation to the cost & externali

>Personally, I'll measure Canada's performance throughout this pandemic by the final number of per-capita deaths. How about in relation to the cost & externalities of this per-capita death figure? Financially, socially etc. It's as though there's no adults in the room willing to speak to tradeoffs - the pernicious, long-term 2nd+ order consequences to be considered.

whimsicalism 5y ago
There are plenty of adults in the room willing to discuss tradeoffs. But you need numbers, and many of the people who don't like lockdowns prefer to make nebulous references to tradeoffs rather than discussing direct harm. There's extensive evidence suggesting that many of the economic effects of the early pandemic were entirely independent of whether a choice was made to lockdown. Individual people aren't stupid and they're not going to keep going out and consuming while a deadly pandemic is raging.
- elevenoh 5y ago
  >There's extensive evidence suggesting that many of the economic effects of the early pandemic were entirely independent of whether a choice was made to lockdown. Remove choice from business owners & watch effected industries move elsewhere (texas, flordia). >"Individual people aren't stupid and they're not going to keep going out and consuming while a deadly pandemic is raging." Covid is 'deadly' to the overweight & immunocompromised.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    affected* florida* And yeah, I'll wait and see. > Covid is 'deadly' to the overweight & immunocompromised. Oh and what percent of our population is overweight again? Not going to continue this conversation, enough of the usual covid canards that I can tell it wouldn't be worth it.
    - elevenoh 5y ago
      >affected* florida* Did these typos affect your ability to parse my comment? :) >Oh and what percent of our population is overweight again? What's your point?
- autokad 5y ago
  It's hard to talk about numbers like that, especially before they happened. I know in Philadelphia, the murder rate is up about 40%. When I was looking at deaths data from the CDC, I found that deaths were up (from 2% on average increase) substantially. I dont remember the % increase, but I do remember 40% of the deaths were not directly from covid-19. if those numbers remained consistent, about 400k extra people died this year from other causes. that 400k, its hard to tell where 'they would have died as a direct result of covis19' and 'lockdowns caused it' begins and ends, but that is not a nebulous number, and its not a small one. And honestly, I dont care about how many would have died vs this and that, back off our freedoms. No one, for any reason, should be able to tell us we can't go outside, can't have family gatherings, can't run a business, etc. No one, for any reason even if the death rate was 100%. And HIV is 100% fatal, yet no one ever required showing someone their HIV status on an app before having sex.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    So 50 additional murders in Philly, and uh 3500 covid deaths. Yeah, wonder where the cost-benefit analysis lies on that one. Moreover, I'm not convinced the economy wouldn't have declined if we hadn't locked down - consumers changed their behavior even in places that didn't lock down. The economic decline is likely behind the increase in murders (along with school closures). > if those numbers remained consistent, about 400k extra people died this year from other causes. I'd love to see a source, as I haven't seen a single bit of evidence suggesting anything like that.
    - autokad 5y ago
      you are focusing on the 50 and not the 400,000. so now that you established yourself as a troll, I really dont care to convince you of anything. > "I'm not convinced the economy wouldn't have declined if we hadn't locked down" I didnt say the economic decline is solely linked to the lock downs, I dont think anyone ever has. however, no one with half a brain would ever argue the lockdowns were so much worse. > "The economic decline is likely behind the increase in murders" Not likely, the last severe economic decline (great recession) didnt see such large spikes in violence. school closures are part of the lock-down. > "I'd love to see a source, as I haven't seen a single bit of evidence suggesting anything like that." That data is freely available from cdc.gov

whimsicalism 5y ago

There are plenty of adults in the room willing to discuss tradeoffs. But you need numbers, and many of the people who don't like lockdowns prefer to make nebulous references to tradeoffs rather than discussing direct harm. There's extensive evidence suggesting that many of the economic effects of the early pandemic were entirely independent of whether a choice was made to lockdown. Individual people aren't stupid and they're not going to keep going out and consuming while a deadly pandemic is raging.

elevenoh 5y ago
>There's extensive evidence suggesting that many of the economic effects of the early pandemic were entirely independent of whether a choice was made to lockdown. Remove choice from business owners & watch effected industries move elsewhere (texas, flordia). >"Individual people aren't stupid and they're not going to keep going out and consuming while a deadly pandemic is raging." Covid is 'deadly' to the overweight & immunocompromised.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  affected* florida* And yeah, I'll wait and see. > Covid is 'deadly' to the overweight & immunocompromised. Oh and what percent of our population is overweight again? Not going to continue this conversation, enough of the usual covid canards that I can tell it wouldn't be worth it.
  - elevenoh 5y ago
    >affected* florida* Did these typos affect your ability to parse my comment? :) >Oh and what percent of our population is overweight again? What's your point?
autokad 5y ago
It's hard to talk about numbers like that, especially before they happened. I know in Philadelphia, the murder rate is up about 40%. When I was looking at deaths data from the CDC, I found that deaths were up (from 2% on average increase) substantially. I dont remember the % increase, but I do remember 40% of the deaths were not directly from covid-19. if those numbers remained consistent, about 400k extra people died this year from other causes. that 400k, its hard to tell where 'they would have died as a direct result of covis19' and 'lockdowns caused it' begins and ends, but that is not a nebulous number, and its not a small one. And honestly, I dont care about how many would have died vs this and that, back off our freedoms. No one, for any reason, should be able to tell us we can't go outside, can't have family gatherings, can't run a business, etc. No one, for any reason even if the death rate was 100%. And HIV is 100% fatal, yet no one ever required showing someone their HIV status on an app before having sex.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  So 50 additional murders in Philly, and uh 3500 covid deaths. Yeah, wonder where the cost-benefit analysis lies on that one. Moreover, I'm not convinced the economy wouldn't have declined if we hadn't locked down - consumers changed their behavior even in places that didn't lock down. The economic decline is likely behind the increase in murders (along with school closures). > if those numbers remained consistent, about 400k extra people died this year from other causes. I'd love to see a source, as I haven't seen a single bit of evidence suggesting anything like that.
  - autokad 5y ago
    you are focusing on the 50 and not the 400,000. so now that you established yourself as a troll, I really dont care to convince you of anything. > "I'm not convinced the economy wouldn't have declined if we hadn't locked down" I didnt say the economic decline is solely linked to the lock downs, I dont think anyone ever has. however, no one with half a brain would ever argue the lockdowns were so much worse. > "The economic decline is likely behind the increase in murders" Not likely, the last severe economic decline (great recession) didnt see such large spikes in violence. school closures are part of the lock-down. > "I'd love to see a source, as I haven't seen a single bit of evidence suggesting anything like that." That data is freely available from cdc.gov