5 ms·

As an ex-pro CS player (circa 2003-2007), this is pretty neat. Unfortunately, even though CS might have a fairly deep weapon pool, only a very small subset of w

by dvt 5y ago

As an ex-pro CS player (circa 2003-2007), this is pretty neat. Unfortunately, even though CS might have a fairly deep weapon pool, only a very small subset of weapons are actually used in competition (I'd wager 85+% of gameplay mostly involves the M4, AK, AWP, Deagle, and USP/Glock). Situationally, a few weapons would be interesting to compare (the MAG-7 and Scout come to mind), but the tool isn't particularly useful outside of a curiosity. Even though I don't really follow the pro scene much anymore, I'd personally be more interested in a tool that analyzed map positioning and strats. Cool site nonetheless, solid work!

krat0sprakhar 5y ago
+1 .. came here to say exactly this. While this site is great for finding out what others weapons exist, I don't think any weapons outside of m4, ak, awp are actually used.
- always_left 5y ago
  I love that nothing has changed since cs 1.6
  - gtsteve 5y ago
    Yes, largely it has been tweaks but there have been a few changes such as the loss of my beloved riot shield.
    - rangibaby 5y ago
      Tactical Intervention had tons of wacky broken creative ideas, to me it felt a lot more like old school CS than Source or GO
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- sixonesixo 5y ago
  well, SMGs are very used today in the competitive scene. 2nd round winning side is usually the time to buy those SMGs, the opponent will probably have an eco round and the added kill bonus given by those weapons are very useful to build up the team economy. Also the autoshotgun has some use, usually CT side in maps like Nuke (A site) where there are choke points and a CT can spam the weapon against a T rushing inside the bomb site
mafuyu 5y ago
Agreed. It's a neat site, though! There has been some variation in weapon use in recent years, but I don't know if this site would have really helped in revealing those details. There was that whole period last year where people discovered the SG and AUG were actually quite good, and then Valve nerfed them into the ground again. Several years ago, the UMP was insanely accurate when tapping/bursting, and it was a great half buy and anti-eco gun. That got nerfed, too. The MP5 behaves somewhat similarly, but it's not really worth buying over the MP9 in a serious match. There was a recent discovery with the Nova, where the first shot spray was found to be consistent, and you could hit headshots consistently from distance by aiming to the right of the head. That one's pretty fun, although the situations where you'd want that over a deagle seem niche. I think the biggest missing with this site is that it's only comparing raw DPS/rate of fire numbers and not spread recovery. A big part of it is the "feel" of bursting/tapping guns while momentum cancelling, when in scenarios where you can't full spray. eg. Clicking on the head with a P250 at medium range isn't super accurate, but if you manage to momentum cancel perfectly and trace, you actually have a pretty decent chance vs full armor. But I could also buy a five seven, which has better armor pen, accuracy, and sprays better.
- vercadium 5y ago
  Thanks for the feedback; absolutely! Modelling these additional aspects like recoil and accuracy with customisable shot intervals is underway. To elaborate, they didn't make it into the initial release as there's a substantial amount of work involved to tie that in dynamically with the data (as each shot is inherently dependant on all the shots before it and the time between them when firing multiple rounds). I understand how much value this would add to the comparisons, so it's a top priority!
  - mafuyu 5y ago
    Good to hear! In particular, one comparison I would love to see is something like: If I perfectly strafe and momentum cancel between every shot with a pistol, how often do I dink an opponent if my crosshair's on their head with a P2K, P250, CZ, and five seven? How different are the recovery periods where I'm strafing before I can tap again?
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
> I'd personally be more interested in a tool that analyzed map positioning and strats What sort of analysis of map positioning and strategies are you thinking about?
vercadium 5y ago
While this is certainly the case overall, at least in today's meta the variety isn't that bad. For example, if you scroll down on https://www.hltv.org/stats?event=5728 https://www.hltv.org/stats?event=5728 you can see a breakdown of what was used in the Dreamhack Masters tournament which was on this weekend. I feel there's enough variation there (especially for "eco rounds" were people can't afford the top weapons) to find value in comparing them. Nonetheless, you are correct on the majority and for sure that will be reflected in the usage of the site - a lot of the comparisons are going to be "Can the M4A4 kill with 1 shot to the head at range X" or similar.
IgorPartola 5y ago
I played CS very non-professionally right at that same time. My go to weapon was the AUG/Bullpup. It seemed to me to have the best combination of spread/range/firing speed/damage. Curious why it didn’t make the cut. Edit: before I got into CS I played a lot of Delta Force and got pretty good at it. I was very proud of my screenshots where I won matches with a 30+ point lead. My weapon of choice there was a heavier machine gun with a model I don’t remember. It wasn’t scoped and didn’t have great accuracy but due to the size of the hit boxes I could still spray and pray pretty efficiently at snipers from a large distance. I was never fast enough at close quarters but the fact that you could see a dot that you knew was a sniper and shoot them down before they got the chance to move while you stay on the move really did help.
- Widdershin 5y ago
  The AUG and other scoped rifles have seen a fair bit of competitive use, depending on their current state of balance.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  too expensive in 1.6
  - gverrilla 5y ago
    yes this is the reason why aug/sg were not being used then
- gao8a 5y ago
  Was it the m60 or m240? Was it delta force BHD? Good times :)
  - IgorPartola 5y ago
    It was! And based on quick searches I think it might have been the m60 but I’d have to fire up the game to be sure.
- girvo 5y ago
  It has had a few times where it’s been meta in niche situations even in later iterations of CS
Lifescape 5y ago
I think the most useful feature is the damage fall off at range. It would be nice to visually see how far away a target is when you adjust the feet away/units away.
- vercadium 5y ago
  Great idea! I had plans to add in a few examples for context, but showing that visually is something I hadn't considered yet; thanks for the feedback :)
publicola1990 5y ago
I really do wish that eSports broadcasting of CS would improve. Instead of focussing on the first person view, if it primarily showcased an overhead view clearly indicating positioning and movement it would be more engaging for viewers.
- sylas1 5y ago
  but the difference would be that you can't see insane PoV's mid-round, which for me, takes away from the beauty of the game
  - publicola1990 5y ago
    eSports I feel needs to grow into a more spectator friendly approach. Real life soccer matches are not broadcast from a players perspective, for example. Similarly if CS GO matches are broadcast from a overhead view that covers a broad swath of the map, it could provide a more engaging view to the spectators. It externalises the action, and makes the match into a "show" to watch, which I would say would be naturally more appealing to viewers. Another interesting option would be to give spectators a free camera to view, I don't think that anything technical difficulty ia there in most game engines from providing a free, unrestricted camera to spectators.
    - prox 5y ago
      You’re not bound by physical parameters... why not both?

by dvt 5y ago

krat0sprakhar 5y ago

+1 .. came here to say exactly this. While this site is great for finding out what others weapons exist, I don't think any weapons outside of m4, ak, awp are actually used.

always_left 5y ago
I love that nothing has changed since cs 1.6
- gtsteve 5y ago
  Yes, largely it has been tweaks but there have been a few changes such as the loss of my beloved riot shield.
  - rangibaby 5y ago
    Tactical Intervention had tons of wacky broken creative ideas, to me it felt a lot more like old school CS than Source or GO
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sixonesixo 5y ago
well, SMGs are very used today in the competitive scene. 2nd round winning side is usually the time to buy those SMGs, the opponent will probably have an eco round and the added kill bonus given by those weapons are very useful to build up the team economy. Also the autoshotgun has some use, usually CT side in maps like Nuke (A site) where there are choke points and a CT can spam the weapon against a T rushing inside the bomb site

mafuyu 5y ago

Agreed. It's a neat site, though! There has been some variation in weapon use in recent years, but I don't know if this site would have really helped in revealing those details. There was that whole period last year where people discovered the SG and AUG were actually quite good, and then Valve nerfed them into the ground again. Several years ago, the UMP was insanely accurate when tapping/bursting, and it was a great half buy and anti-eco gun. That got nerfed, too. The MP5 behaves somewhat similarly, but it's not really worth buying over the MP9 in a serious match. There was a recent discovery with the Nova, where the first shot spray was found to be consistent, and you could hit headshots consistently from distance by aiming to the right of the head. That one's pretty fun, although the situations where you'd want that over a deagle seem niche. I think the biggest missing with this site is that it's only comparing raw DPS/rate of fire numbers and not spread recovery. A big part of it is the "feel" of bursting/tapping guns while momentum cancelling, when in scenarios where you can't full spray. eg. Clicking on the head with a P250 at medium range isn't super accurate, but if you manage to momentum cancel perfectly and trace, you actually have a pretty decent chance vs full armor. But I could also buy a five seven, which has better armor pen, accuracy, and sprays better.

vercadium 5y ago
Thanks for the feedback; absolutely! Modelling these additional aspects like recoil and accuracy with customisable shot intervals is underway. To elaborate, they didn't make it into the initial release as there's a substantial amount of work involved to tie that in dynamically with the data (as each shot is inherently dependant on all the shots before it and the time between them when firing multiple rounds). I understand how much value this would add to the comparisons, so it's a top priority!
- mafuyu 5y ago
  Good to hear! In particular, one comparison I would love to see is something like: If I perfectly strafe and momentum cancel between every shot with a pistol, how often do I dink an opponent if my crosshair's on their head with a P2K, P250, CZ, and five seven? How different are the recovery periods where I'm strafing before I can tap again?

ZephyrBlu 5y ago

> I'd personally be more interested in a tool that analyzed map positioning and strats What sort of analysis of map positioning and strategies are you thinking about?

vercadium 5y ago

While this is certainly the case overall, at least in today's meta the variety isn't that bad. For example, if you scroll down on https://www.hltv.org/stats?event=5728 https://www.hltv.org/stats?event=5728 you can see a breakdown of what was used in the Dreamhack Masters tournament which was on this weekend. I feel there's enough variation there (especially for "eco rounds" were people can't afford the top weapons) to find value in comparing them. Nonetheless, you are correct on the majority and for sure that will be reflected in the usage of the site - a lot of the comparisons are going to be "Can the M4A4 kill with 1 shot to the head at range X" or similar.

IgorPartola 5y ago

I played CS very non-professionally right at that same time. My go to weapon was the AUG/Bullpup. It seemed to me to have the best combination of spread/range/firing speed/damage. Curious why it didn’t make the cut. Edit: before I got into CS I played a lot of Delta Force and got pretty good at it. I was very proud of my screenshots where I won matches with a 30+ point lead. My weapon of choice there was a heavier machine gun with a model I don’t remember. It wasn’t scoped and didn’t have great accuracy but due to the size of the hit boxes I could still spray and pray pretty efficiently at snipers from a large distance. I was never fast enough at close quarters but the fact that you could see a dot that you knew was a sniper and shoot them down before they got the chance to move while you stay on the move really did help.

Widdershin 5y ago
The AUG and other scoped rifles have seen a fair bit of competitive use, depending on their current state of balance.
leetcrew 5y ago
too expensive in 1.6
- gverrilla 5y ago
  yes this is the reason why aug/sg were not being used then
gao8a 5y ago
Was it the m60 or m240? Was it delta force BHD? Good times :)
- IgorPartola 5y ago
  It was! And based on quick searches I think it might have been the m60 but I’d have to fire up the game to be sure.
girvo 5y ago
It has had a few times where it’s been meta in niche situations even in later iterations of CS

Lifescape 5y ago

I think the most useful feature is the damage fall off at range. It would be nice to visually see how far away a target is when you adjust the feet away/units away.

vercadium 5y ago
Great idea! I had plans to add in a few examples for context, but showing that visually is something I hadn't considered yet; thanks for the feedback :)

publicola1990 5y ago

I really do wish that eSports broadcasting of CS would improve. Instead of focussing on the first person view, if it primarily showcased an overhead view clearly indicating positioning and movement it would be more engaging for viewers.

sylas1 5y ago
but the difference would be that you can't see insane PoV's mid-round, which for me, takes away from the beauty of the game
- publicola1990 5y ago
  eSports I feel needs to grow into a more spectator friendly approach. Real life soccer matches are not broadcast from a players perspective, for example. Similarly if CS GO matches are broadcast from a overhead view that covers a broad swath of the map, it could provide a more engaging view to the spectators. It externalises the action, and makes the match into a "show" to watch, which I would say would be naturally more appealing to viewers. Another interesting option would be to give spectators a free camera to view, I don't think that anything technical difficulty ia there in most game engines from providing a free, unrestricted camera to spectators.
  - prox 5y ago
    You’re not bound by physical parameters... why not both?