6 ms·

Large scale brainwashing, but also, holding the opinion of biologically driven personality eats away at the concept of free will

gotoeleven 5y ago
The creation of mass delusions that benefit powerful groups is basically the norm in human society it seems like. It used to be religion and now it's fact-free feel good wishful thinking. My lived experience. My truth. It's no different than dancing to please the sun god.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  > My lived experience. Somebody's “lived experience” is their personal anecdotes. It's often in contrast with “quantify or discard”-type bad-at-science academics who make blanket assertions about things they don't know very much about.
TulliusCicero 5y ago
Calling it brainwashing is maybe overselling the point, but as an exmo it does feel similar to me to arguments around religious dogma, where people are already 100% certain on the only outcome/position that's acceptable to them, then go find the arguments and evidence that backs that. It's clear to me that many social progressives find the idea that there may be average biological differences in personality between genders to be unacceptable. > holding the opinion of biologically driven personality eats away at the concept of free will Eh, I don't think you'll find many people who dispute that there's individual variation in personalities due to biology/genetics. Hell, "born this way" (for being gay) was practically a rallying cry on the left.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  The superset is "ideology" imo. Whether the topic is supernatural or physical, people who base their lives on ideology tend to behave similarly, as you've pointed out.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  I think the problem is that people like James Damore will say that women aren’t suited for work in tech, and I don’t think that’s correct. And worse, the very idea almost provides support for the abuse women regularly feel working in tech from their male coworkers. So sure, hormone differences seem to lead to different brain chemistry. But then people draw wild and incorrect conclusions like gate keeping women out of tech. And the fact that their conclusion is wrong is more important than the fact that some differences do exist. Edit: I worked at Google when the memo came out. Personally I didn’t think the memo was that bad... until I spoke to my female friends that worked at Google. They told me a lot about how women are treated in tech. And they showed me how things said in the memo that I thought were harmless actually perpetuated beliefs that they believed did cause them harm. So the people saying I am misrepresenting the situation... are you a man? Maybe you can’t recognize the harmful statements the way women do and so you do not remember them being harmful? I certainly got a lesson in my own bias after that memo came out. My close friends sat me down and we had some difficult conversations about it. If you’ve never done that, consider what you might be missing.
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
    I would never say one gender simply "isn't suited" for a particular career type, but I do think it's likely that, if there are average sex differences in personality, there are almost certainly average sex differences in occupational preferences. But, that doesn't preclude there also being sexism present that needs to be dealt with.
  - 13years 5y ago
    I don't believe that is what Damore said or intended. The discussion revolves around preference not capability. They are not the same thing.
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    >I think the problem is that people like James Damore will say that women aren’t suited for work in tech That's something he never said, and even explicitly said the opposite multiple times. The fact that people like you continue to repeat lies about what he said without ever reading what he said (or worse, willfully lying in spite of actually reading it) is why we can't have honest conversations about this.

gotoeleven 5y ago

The creation of mass delusions that benefit powerful groups is basically the norm in human society it seems like. It used to be religion and now it's fact-free feel good wishful thinking. My lived experience. My truth. It's no different than dancing to please the sun god.

wizzwizz4 5y ago
> My lived experience. Somebody's “lived experience” is their personal anecdotes. It's often in contrast with “quantify or discard”-type bad-at-science academics who make blanket assertions about things they don't know very much about.

TulliusCicero 5y ago

Calling it brainwashing is maybe overselling the point, but as an exmo it does feel similar to me to arguments around religious dogma, where people are already 100% certain on the only outcome/position that's acceptable to them, then go find the arguments and evidence that backs that. It's clear to me that many social progressives find the idea that there may be average biological differences in personality between genders to be unacceptable. > holding the opinion of biologically driven personality eats away at the concept of free will Eh, I don't think you'll find many people who dispute that there's individual variation in personalities due to biology/genetics. Hell, "born this way" (for being gay) was practically a rallying cry on the left.

silicon2401 5y ago
The superset is "ideology" imo. Whether the topic is supernatural or physical, people who base their lives on ideology tend to behave similarly, as you've pointed out.
TaylorAlexander 5y ago
I think the problem is that people like James Damore will say that women aren’t suited for work in tech, and I don’t think that’s correct. And worse, the very idea almost provides support for the abuse women regularly feel working in tech from their male coworkers. So sure, hormone differences seem to lead to different brain chemistry. But then people draw wild and incorrect conclusions like gate keeping women out of tech. And the fact that their conclusion is wrong is more important than the fact that some differences do exist. Edit: I worked at Google when the memo came out. Personally I didn’t think the memo was that bad... until I spoke to my female friends that worked at Google. They told me a lot about how women are treated in tech. And they showed me how things said in the memo that I thought were harmless actually perpetuated beliefs that they believed did cause them harm. So the people saying I am misrepresenting the situation... are you a man? Maybe you can’t recognize the harmful statements the way women do and so you do not remember them being harmful? I certainly got a lesson in my own bias after that memo came out. My close friends sat me down and we had some difficult conversations about it. If you’ve never done that, consider what you might be missing.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  I would never say one gender simply "isn't suited" for a particular career type, but I do think it's likely that, if there are average sex differences in personality, there are almost certainly average sex differences in occupational preferences. But, that doesn't preclude there also being sexism present that needs to be dealt with.
- 13years 5y ago
  I don't believe that is what Damore said or intended. The discussion revolves around preference not capability. They are not the same thing.
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  >I think the problem is that people like James Damore will say that women aren’t suited for work in tech That's something he never said, and even explicitly said the opposite multiple times. The fact that people like you continue to repeat lies about what he said without ever reading what he said (or worse, willfully lying in spite of actually reading it) is why we can't have honest conversations about this.