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I think the scale of the 'Exposure' does matter here (please don't just downvote, hear me out). Exposure = Advertisement, right? Wouldn't you pay for adverti

I think the scale of the 'Exposure' does matter here (please don't just downvote, hear me out). Exposure = Advertisement, right? Wouldn't you pay for advertisement? Now, if you invest very little for advertisement, you might get very little in return. Say, your investment is doing a free 'exposure' gig for a return of 20-30 potential customers. This might not be equitable to your time/equipment/team/etc. Now, in the example of doing exposure for a well known show (I don't watch any reality shows, btw), then: 1) Getting exposure to millions of people 2) Gaining the ability to say you worked on 'x' show 3) Your pictures being out there 4) How about other negotiated perks for doing this? (Right to use and ownership of material, being most important). 5 days of this investment does sound like a lot of money, but I believe the real question is: "Does my investment have the potential to yield to not only cover initial costs, but turn a profit?" If the answer is 'yes', go for it. If it is 'no', then decline. I truly believe this is a business decision. I am not saying people should be working for free. I truly think your time and resources are highly valuable. What I'm saying is that 'free' might not always mean 'no return on investment'.

chmod775 5y ago
I'm willing to bet money precisely nobody is going to seek out those photographers because they found them in the fineprint of some probably cringeworthy netflix show. The best they can hope for is having additional munition to convince a potential but hesitant customer. Also, some people need money this month, not maybe-money 2 years down the line.
- EricE 5y ago
  So no one would value the experience and prestige of being involved in a successful program that has an audience of 30 million. No one? That’s a pretty bold assumption. As for the money this month vs later - this is the gig for them. Again, just because it’s not a an appropriate gig for all photographers doesn’t mean that it’s a gig that might not be exactly what a different photographer could benefit from.
  - chmod775 5y ago
    > So no one would value the experience and prestige of being involved in a successful program that has an audience of 30 million. Thank you for misrepresenting what I said.
- antiterra 5y ago
  You don't have to be sought out to be able to proclaim "as seen on Season 2 of Love is Blind" and have an air of credibility in a competitive world absolutely packed with people of moderate ability attempting to establish themselves as pay-worthy.
- l0c0b0x 5y ago
  I hear you... and for #1 "Getting exposure to millions of people", this is more related #2, as it wouldn't be applicable if people don't know anything about the cringefesty show. > Some people need money this month, not maybe--money 2 years down the line. I agree, but I stand by the statement that this is a business decision. I have to believe this is a rare opportunity too, and doesn't compare to the common 'exposure opportunity' from various producers/promoters out there. I did music for a while, and have seen my good share of this, and was always surprised how many people fall into it. Even when it clearly meant it was a very bad business decision--and most of the time, not even fun.
antiterra 5y ago
Definitely. Some great musicians busk for spare change or the odd youtube subscription for years, while others (arguably less talented or creative) have been arbitrarily 'discovered' and delivered into financial success. Exposure from the club downtown is one thing. But, telling a busker they shouldn't take a free opportunity for genuine national exposure because it 'devalues gigs' feels a bit like a cruel joke-- game theory notwithstanding.
petee 5y ago
Exposure doesn't work when you realize you've signed a contract saying you can't advertise that you worked on this TV show. The only exposure you'll get is that the production now knows you're a sucker to call again. Do people really think the show will let the photographer blast their pictures with "Joes photography did this" all over the internet? Best you'll be able to do is tell your friends verbally.
- l0c0b0x 5y ago
  Is this opinion only, or actual knowledge or experience? You might be right, in which case I'd agree with you (I have no experience with those details on contract provisions), but again it goes back to being a business decision :).
  - petee 5y ago
    I should have clarified that its in my own experience, based on some of the non-disclosure stuff I've had to sign. Everything depends on the employer though; they most likely could list it on their resume, but probably not much more than that. My point was more that the show is offering an illusion of exposure, when they'll be lucky if they are even mentioned in the credits. My relative who was in the video game industry wasn't even allowed to list their most recent jobs actual employment to their next employer, as another example of strong contract
    - l0c0b0x 5y ago
      > My relative who was in the video game industry wasn't even allowed to list their most recent jobs actual employment to their next employer, as another example of strong contract Wow!
akshaybhalotia 5y ago
Point is that justifying and evaluating this is hard. Like really hard. It is especially hurtful to younger / less experienced people because if you have not been in the business for long, you don't know enough dynamics and factors and costs etc and you just might make the wrong decision. It's all speculation (much like advertisement, I agree). But as much as we hate advertising industry because of their data collection practices and stuff, they do provide you a metric in return while this doesn't.

chmod775 5y ago

I'm willing to bet money precisely nobody is going to seek out those photographers because they found them in the fineprint of some probably cringeworthy netflix show. The best they can hope for is having additional munition to convince a potential but hesitant customer. Also, some people need money this month, not maybe-money 2 years down the line.

EricE 5y ago
So no one would value the experience and prestige of being involved in a successful program that has an audience of 30 million. No one? That’s a pretty bold assumption. As for the money this month vs later - this is the gig for them. Again, just because it’s not a an appropriate gig for all photographers doesn’t mean that it’s a gig that might not be exactly what a different photographer could benefit from.
- chmod775 5y ago
  > So no one would value the experience and prestige of being involved in a successful program that has an audience of 30 million. Thank you for misrepresenting what I said.
antiterra 5y ago
You don't have to be sought out to be able to proclaim "as seen on Season 2 of Love is Blind" and have an air of credibility in a competitive world absolutely packed with people of moderate ability attempting to establish themselves as pay-worthy.
l0c0b0x 5y ago
I hear you... and for #1 "Getting exposure to millions of people", this is more related #2, as it wouldn't be applicable if people don't know anything about the cringefesty show. > Some people need money this month, not maybe--money 2 years down the line. I agree, but I stand by the statement that this is a business decision. I have to believe this is a rare opportunity too, and doesn't compare to the common 'exposure opportunity' from various producers/promoters out there. I did music for a while, and have seen my good share of this, and was always surprised how many people fall into it. Even when it clearly meant it was a very bad business decision--and most of the time, not even fun.

antiterra 5y ago

Definitely. Some great musicians busk for spare change or the odd youtube subscription for years, while others (arguably less talented or creative) have been arbitrarily 'discovered' and delivered into financial success. Exposure from the club downtown is one thing. But, telling a busker they shouldn't take a free opportunity for genuine national exposure because it 'devalues gigs' feels a bit like a cruel joke-- game theory notwithstanding.

petee 5y ago

Exposure doesn't work when you realize you've signed a contract saying you can't advertise that you worked on this TV show. The only exposure you'll get is that the production now knows you're a sucker to call again. Do people really think the show will let the photographer blast their pictures with "Joes photography did this" all over the internet? Best you'll be able to do is tell your friends verbally.

l0c0b0x 5y ago
Is this opinion only, or actual knowledge or experience? You might be right, in which case I'd agree with you (I have no experience with those details on contract provisions), but again it goes back to being a business decision :).
- petee 5y ago
  I should have clarified that its in my own experience, based on some of the non-disclosure stuff I've had to sign. Everything depends on the employer though; they most likely could list it on their resume, but probably not much more than that. My point was more that the show is offering an illusion of exposure, when they'll be lucky if they are even mentioned in the credits. My relative who was in the video game industry wasn't even allowed to list their most recent jobs actual employment to their next employer, as another example of strong contract
  - l0c0b0x 5y ago
    > My relative who was in the video game industry wasn't even allowed to list their most recent jobs actual employment to their next employer, as another example of strong contract Wow!

akshaybhalotia 5y ago

Point is that justifying and evaluating this is hard. Like really hard. It is especially hurtful to younger / less experienced people because if you have not been in the business for long, you don't know enough dynamics and factors and costs etc and you just might make the wrong decision. It's all speculation (much like advertisement, I agree). But as much as we hate advertising industry because of their data collection practices and stuff, they do provide you a metric in return while this doesn't.