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If you polled Germans in 1938 about whether it should be state policy to kill six million jews, you would have gotten a hard no. Yet it happened anyway, becaus

If you polled Germans in 1938 about whether it should be state policy to kill six million jews, you would have gotten a hard no. Yet it happened anyway, because (to borrow the upthread phrasing) while sure rounding them up might "suck", it was important to "compartmentalize" and not conflate the injustice suffered by the local jews being interned with the prosecution of the war. So the people prosecuting the war got cart blanche to engage in genocide, because the people who should have stopped it didn't, because of something very much like the "compartmentalization" in the upthread post. The point being (which of course isn't that a modern holocaust is brewing) that if injustice sucks, it should suck for everyone everywhere and it should be allowed to discuss it in any forum. Arguing otherwise isn't arguing for "compartmentalization", it's just arguing for the perspective that the injustice doesn't suck.

shkkmo 5y ago
Holocaust didn't happen because the people who opposed rounding up people demonstrated as part of their private lives but didn't bring up their objections at work. Pretending that THIS is "literally" why the Holocaust happened borders on anti-semitism. The Holocaust happened because enough peoole there were willing to accept bad things being done when they were done to unpopular groups. The lesson to be learned from it is that even if someone is unpopular, we need to be strive to treat them with humanity.
- newacct583 5y ago
  I'm sorry, but no. The holocaust absolutely happened because the German people turned a blind eye to what was going on. Because whatever their private feelings might have been, they kept them private because they weren't appropriate to express in public. The German people, in aggregate, were clearly able to stop the holocaust. And it happened anyway. Also let me just note that your casual attempt to accuse me of antisemitism in a thread LITERALLY ABOUT people being casually and unjustly accused of white supremacy is just "chef's kiss" level hypocrisy. Well done.
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    > German people turned a blind eye to what was going on. Yes, that is what I said was the cause. That is different from what you said which is that people protesting in their personal live but being unwilling to discuss as part of their professional lives (i.e. compartamentalizing) was the cause. Those germans should have been protesting and fighting back wherever possible, but it absolutely wasn't a limiting of protests to non-professional contexts that caused the Holocaust. > Also let me just note that your casual attempt to accuse me of antisemitism in a thread LITERALLY ABOUT people being casually and unjustly accused of white supremacy is just "chef's kiss" level hypocrisy. Well done. I stand by the assement of the stance that I put forward; it borders on anti-semitism. It sounds like that stance might not be one you intended to take. If so, I suggest re-reading what you wrote to see how it appears you are taking that stance. If you disagree with my assessment of that stance, please explain whitewashing the german response to the rise of the Nazis doesn't border on anti-semitism because what that stance equates to for me is saying: "The germans didn't believe reprehensible things or disregard the humanity of those headed to concentration camps, they just let their professionalism stand in the way of speaking out against the Nazis."
- dang 5y ago
  The GP shouldn't have gone holocaust but accusing them of anti-semitism is a serious escalation and not at all cool. Please omit such swipes from your comments here. If there's real evidence of anti-semitism, you should let us know at hn@ycombinator.com. But bringing something like that up frivolously, as ammunition in an internet spat, is degrading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

shkkmo 5y ago

Holocaust didn't happen because the people who opposed rounding up people demonstrated as part of their private lives but didn't bring up their objections at work. Pretending that THIS is "literally" why the Holocaust happened borders on anti-semitism. The Holocaust happened because enough peoole there were willing to accept bad things being done when they were done to unpopular groups. The lesson to be learned from it is that even if someone is unpopular, we need to be strive to treat them with humanity.

newacct583 5y ago
I'm sorry, but no. The holocaust absolutely happened because the German people turned a blind eye to what was going on. Because whatever their private feelings might have been, they kept them private because they weren't appropriate to express in public. The German people, in aggregate, were clearly able to stop the holocaust. And it happened anyway. Also let me just note that your casual attempt to accuse me of antisemitism in a thread LITERALLY ABOUT people being casually and unjustly accused of white supremacy is just "chef's kiss" level hypocrisy. Well done.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  > German people turned a blind eye to what was going on. Yes, that is what I said was the cause. That is different from what you said which is that people protesting in their personal live but being unwilling to discuss as part of their professional lives (i.e. compartamentalizing) was the cause. Those germans should have been protesting and fighting back wherever possible, but it absolutely wasn't a limiting of protests to non-professional contexts that caused the Holocaust. > Also let me just note that your casual attempt to accuse me of antisemitism in a thread LITERALLY ABOUT people being casually and unjustly accused of white supremacy is just "chef's kiss" level hypocrisy. Well done. I stand by the assement of the stance that I put forward; it borders on anti-semitism. It sounds like that stance might not be one you intended to take. If so, I suggest re-reading what you wrote to see how it appears you are taking that stance. If you disagree with my assessment of that stance, please explain whitewashing the german response to the rise of the Nazis doesn't border on anti-semitism because what that stance equates to for me is saying: "The germans didn't believe reprehensible things or disregard the humanity of those headed to concentration camps, they just let their professionalism stand in the way of speaking out against the Nazis."
dang 5y ago
The GP shouldn't have gone holocaust but accusing them of anti-semitism is a serious escalation and not at all cool. Please omit such swipes from your comments here. If there's real evidence of anti-semitism, you should let us know at hn@ycombinator.com. But bringing something like that up frivolously, as ammunition in an internet spat, is degrading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html