8 ms·

I agree it's time for the "board" to do their job... and wish they'd do the same job for those calling for violence - and doing so - for years before and after

I agree it's time for the "board" to do their job... and wish they'd do the same job for those calling for violence - and doing so - for years before and after the "capital riots"... IE: Why isn't Maxine Waters banned everywhere? She's ACTUALLY called for more destruction and had it happen... compared to Trumps "call" which specifically said "protest peacefully". This is all a waste of time and the hypocrisy is astounding... rules for thee but not for me. Wokeness at its deepest levels of hypocrisy.

invisible 5y ago
I have no idea why you put the riots in quotes when that's what they were _at best_. Trump was talking to an audience immediately before the same individuals surrounded and stormed the capitol. His speech was at best divisive and contained many euphemisms, if not straight calls to violence by using words like "fight." Why are you playing this "what about x" game? The comparison is apples to oranges, and yet here we are.
- koolba 5y ago
  > His speech was at best divisive and contained many euphemisms, if not straight calls to violence by using words like "fight." Here are all references to the word "fight" in that speech (Full transcript is here: https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-01-13/transcript-of-trumps-speech-at-rally-before-us-capitol-riot https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-01-13/tra...): * And Rudy, you did a great job. He’s got guts. You know what? He’s got guts, unlike a lot of people in the Republican Party. He’s got guts. He fights, he fights. * For years, Democrats have gotten away with election fraud and weak Republicans. And that’s what they are. There’s so many weak Republicans. And we have great ones. Jim Jordan and some of these guys, they’re out there fighting. The House guys are fighting. But it’s, it’s incredible. * And you have to get your people to fight. And if they don’t fight, we have to primary the hell out of the ones that don’t fight. You primary them. We’re going to. We’re going to let you know who they are. I can already tell you, frankly. * Republicans are, Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we’re going to have to fight much harder. * But we’ve done it quickly and we were going to sit home and watch a big victory and everybody had us down for a victory. It was going to be great and now we’re out here fighting. I said to somebody, I was going to take a few days and relax after our big electoral victory. 10 o’clock it was over. But I was going to take a few days. * The American people do not believe the corrupt, fake news anymore. They have ruined their reputation. But you know, it used to be that they’d argue with me. I’d fight. So I’d fight, they’d fight, I’d fight, they’d fight. Pop pop. You’d believe me, you’d believe them. Somebody comes out. You know, they had their point of view, I had my point of view, but you’d have an argument. * Now what they do is they go silent. It’s called suppression and that’s what happens in a communist country. That’s what they do, they suppress. You don’t fight with them anymore. Unless it’s a bad story. They have a little bad story about me, they make it 10 times worse and it’s a major headline. * But our fight against the big donors, big media, big tech, and others is just getting started. This is the greatest in history. There’s never been a movement like that. * And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore. So which of those is a "straight call to violence"? And just so it's not forgotten, he also said this during the same speech: * I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
  - threatofrain 5y ago
    As a devil's advocate: if the presidency was about to be stolen, what must be done to secure heart of the nation? Not fight? What would it mean to get newspaper ads in another nation which asserted that their presidency was being stolen?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - wernercd 5y ago
    Years of peaceful gatherings by Trump with more than ample evidence that Trump called for peaceful protests... https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-trump-say-peacefully-patriotically-march-capitol-1561718 https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-trump-say-peacefully... The Ruling Mostly true. The president did say that the crowd was going to march peacefully and patriotically to the Capitol. After the attack, Trump said he does not condone violence.
    - invisible 5y ago
      This is a great article detailing what was said, including why it is only _mostly_ true that he called for peace. > However, it does not necessarily mean the president did not incite violence with the rest of his speech or in his rhetoric prior to January 6.
      - wernercd 5y ago
        The same people saying he incited violence are the people who back Maxine Waters who's comments led to violence against police. So it's hard to look seriously at those "he incited violence" given his YEARS of similar public gatherings and never having incited violence previously. Key is that he never called for violence, he called for peaceful protests and he condemned the violence. I mean... it doesn't get any simpler than that.
  - invisible 5y ago
    Stop straw manning what I said. That speech was written and was trying to accomplish a goal. Ignoring that public speaking is intended to influence people is like pretending that his words didn't matter at all. He mentioned being peaceful once, but then suggested that the nation was being stolen from them and that they should be patriots and fight back.
- zackees 5y ago
  I was there Jan 6th near the capital buildings. It was a bunch of spooks that created the violence and broke in. This has been documented thoroughly. See the mini doc “psyop the steal” which goes in depth on the spooks that were part of that action. The most well known of these individuals was John Sullivan who’s video were used in the impeachment trial. He was there when Ashlie Babbit was shot. He was arrested twice, the second time turned in by his own brother for helping instigate the Jan6th action. Both times he’s been released without bail. His videos of the capital “riot” was sold to CNN and used in the impeachment trial. He’s open about being a Black Lives Matter / Antifa member. Which makes it not surprising that this individual is being protected. Additional, there’s video (that’s been mostly scrubbed from the internet) showing video inside the capital building of individuals handing out the weapons through the windows of the capital building which were used to then break the windows from outside and attack the few cops that were guarding the front entrance. Then the cops open up the doors across the capital building and people were let in. This is all on video. The January 6th insurrection was planned by insiders which resulted in a “Reichtag Fire” moment that torpedoed the planned challenge to the election results on a number of states with city centers that had disputed election results. And now this “January 6th Insurrection” is being used to justify labeling entire swaths of the country as potential domestic terrorists.
- wernercd 5y ago
  I put it in quotes because it was 6 hours... compared to years of violence by those who are clutching pearls about 6 hours? "Stormed" likewise, those who are most offended are happy about stuff that has lead to millions in damage elsewhere... but for some reason the capital is Holy? "words like fight" He said to protest peacefully... https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-trump-say-peacefully-patriotically-march-capitol-1561718 https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-trump-say-peacefully... Ruling: Mostly True (hint: that means it's true) "why are you playing" because Trump, for all his faults, had hundreds of gatherings that didn't lead to violence and he never called for violence - and, as mentioned, he said to gather peacefully. Meanwhile, those clutching pearls, are silent or supportive over YEARS of violence. IE: Pilosi, the biggest critic of "Trumps capital riots" is supportive of Maxine Waters. The comparison IS apples to oranges... Trump didn't call for violence - and has a history of gatherings without violence. Compared to the other side that has repeatedly called for violence with years of gatherings with MUCH violence. (and other facts like the violent groups included members of Antifa/BLM and that the violent groups were gathering BEFORE Trumps speech) We are here... and facts don't care about feelings.
- nailer 5y ago
  Why is the comparison apples to oranges? You’re comparing euphemisms and a very specific definition of ‘fight’ to a direct call to escalate confrontation at protests.
  - invisible 5y ago
    It's apples to oranges because she was not speaking directly to a crowd that was being encouraged to make an election go her way, as Trump was.
    - nailer 5y ago
      That’s a very specific interpretation of events
      - invisible 5y ago
        I'm not sure what answer would have satisfied your question if it wasn't asked with poor intent. There are many differences, including Trump organizing the group together that then turned into rioters after his speech.
        nailer 5y ago
        The question was most definitely asked with intent to make you consider why any comparison is somehow inappropriate.

invisible 5y ago

I have no idea why you put the riots in quotes when that's what they were _at best_. Trump was talking to an audience immediately before the same individuals surrounded and stormed the capitol. His speech was at best divisive and contained many euphemisms, if not straight calls to violence by using words like "fight." Why are you playing this "what about x" game? The comparison is apples to oranges, and yet here we are.

koolba 5y ago
> His speech was at best divisive and contained many euphemisms, if not straight calls to violence by using words like "fight." Here are all references to the word "fight" in that speech (Full transcript is here: https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-01-13/transcript-of-trumps-speech-at-rally-before-us-capitol-riot https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-01-13/tra...): * And Rudy, you did a great job. He’s got guts. You know what? He’s got guts, unlike a lot of people in the Republican Party. He’s got guts. He fights, he fights. * For years, Democrats have gotten away with election fraud and weak Republicans. And that’s what they are. There’s so many weak Republicans. And we have great ones. Jim Jordan and some of these guys, they’re out there fighting. The House guys are fighting. But it’s, it’s incredible. * And you have to get your people to fight. And if they don’t fight, we have to primary the hell out of the ones that don’t fight. You primary them. We’re going to. We’re going to let you know who they are. I can already tell you, frankly. * Republicans are, Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we’re going to have to fight much harder. * But we’ve done it quickly and we were going to sit home and watch a big victory and everybody had us down for a victory. It was going to be great and now we’re out here fighting. I said to somebody, I was going to take a few days and relax after our big electoral victory. 10 o’clock it was over. But I was going to take a few days. * The American people do not believe the corrupt, fake news anymore. They have ruined their reputation. But you know, it used to be that they’d argue with me. I’d fight. So I’d fight, they’d fight, I’d fight, they’d fight. Pop pop. You’d believe me, you’d believe them. Somebody comes out. You know, they had their point of view, I had my point of view, but you’d have an argument. * Now what they do is they go silent. It’s called suppression and that’s what happens in a communist country. That’s what they do, they suppress. You don’t fight with them anymore. Unless it’s a bad story. They have a little bad story about me, they make it 10 times worse and it’s a major headline. * But our fight against the big donors, big media, big tech, and others is just getting started. This is the greatest in history. There’s never been a movement like that. * And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore. So which of those is a "straight call to violence"? And just so it's not forgotten, he also said this during the same speech: * I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  As a devil's advocate: if the presidency was about to be stolen, what must be done to secure heart of the nation? Not fight? What would it mean to get newspaper ads in another nation which asserted that their presidency was being stolen?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- wernercd 5y ago
  Years of peaceful gatherings by Trump with more than ample evidence that Trump called for peaceful protests... https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-trump-say-peacefully-patriotically-march-capitol-1561718 https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-trump-say-peacefully... The Ruling Mostly true. The president did say that the crowd was going to march peacefully and patriotically to the Capitol. After the attack, Trump said he does not condone violence.
  - invisible 5y ago
    This is a great article detailing what was said, including why it is only _mostly_ true that he called for peace. > However, it does not necessarily mean the president did not incite violence with the rest of his speech or in his rhetoric prior to January 6.
    - wernercd 5y ago
      The same people saying he incited violence are the people who back Maxine Waters who's comments led to violence against police. So it's hard to look seriously at those "he incited violence" given his YEARS of similar public gatherings and never having incited violence previously. Key is that he never called for violence, he called for peaceful protests and he condemned the violence. I mean... it doesn't get any simpler than that.
- invisible 5y ago
  Stop straw manning what I said. That speech was written and was trying to accomplish a goal. Ignoring that public speaking is intended to influence people is like pretending that his words didn't matter at all. He mentioned being peaceful once, but then suggested that the nation was being stolen from them and that they should be patriots and fight back.
zackees 5y ago
I was there Jan 6th near the capital buildings. It was a bunch of spooks that created the violence and broke in. This has been documented thoroughly. See the mini doc “psyop the steal” which goes in depth on the spooks that were part of that action. The most well known of these individuals was John Sullivan who’s video were used in the impeachment trial. He was there when Ashlie Babbit was shot. He was arrested twice, the second time turned in by his own brother for helping instigate the Jan6th action. Both times he’s been released without bail. His videos of the capital “riot” was sold to CNN and used in the impeachment trial. He’s open about being a Black Lives Matter / Antifa member. Which makes it not surprising that this individual is being protected. Additional, there’s video (that’s been mostly scrubbed from the internet) showing video inside the capital building of individuals handing out the weapons through the windows of the capital building which were used to then break the windows from outside and attack the few cops that were guarding the front entrance. Then the cops open up the doors across the capital building and people were let in. This is all on video. The January 6th insurrection was planned by insiders which resulted in a “Reichtag Fire” moment that torpedoed the planned challenge to the election results on a number of states with city centers that had disputed election results. And now this “January 6th Insurrection” is being used to justify labeling entire swaths of the country as potential domestic terrorists.
wernercd 5y ago
I put it in quotes because it was 6 hours... compared to years of violence by those who are clutching pearls about 6 hours? "Stormed" likewise, those who are most offended are happy about stuff that has lead to millions in damage elsewhere... but for some reason the capital is Holy? "words like fight" He said to protest peacefully... https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-trump-say-peacefully-patriotically-march-capitol-1561718 https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-trump-say-peacefully... Ruling: Mostly True (hint: that means it's true) "why are you playing" because Trump, for all his faults, had hundreds of gatherings that didn't lead to violence and he never called for violence - and, as mentioned, he said to gather peacefully. Meanwhile, those clutching pearls, are silent or supportive over YEARS of violence. IE: Pilosi, the biggest critic of "Trumps capital riots" is supportive of Maxine Waters. The comparison IS apples to oranges... Trump didn't call for violence - and has a history of gatherings without violence. Compared to the other side that has repeatedly called for violence with years of gatherings with MUCH violence. (and other facts like the violent groups included members of Antifa/BLM and that the violent groups were gathering BEFORE Trumps speech) We are here... and facts don't care about feelings.
nailer 5y ago
Why is the comparison apples to oranges? You’re comparing euphemisms and a very specific definition of ‘fight’ to a direct call to escalate confrontation at protests.
- invisible 5y ago
  It's apples to oranges because she was not speaking directly to a crowd that was being encouraged to make an election go her way, as Trump was.
  - nailer 5y ago
    That’s a very specific interpretation of events
    - invisible 5y ago
      I'm not sure what answer would have satisfied your question if it wasn't asked with poor intent. There are many differences, including Trump organizing the group together that then turned into rioters after his speech.
      - nailer 5y ago
        The question was most definitely asked with intent to make you consider why any comparison is somehow inappropriate.