5 ms·

Just because something is used a lot doesn't mean that any number of people wanted it.

crazygringo 6y ago
If they're using something a lot that's non-default, and they have to go out of their way to select it...? Yeah, it does mean those people want it. There's literally no other way to interpret it.
- jessedhillon 6y ago
  People choose to pay their taxes, therefore people want taxes. People choose to accept EULAs before they use software, therefore people want EULAs. People choose to stay with spouses with whom they occasionally fight, therefore people want fighting in their lives. People choose to navigate complex civil bureaucracies in order to get things done, therefore they want bureaucracy. Or, people can suffer through a certain amount of bullshit in order to get to their goals. The word you're looking for is "instrumental" -- there's your missing interpretation. At some point in the past ten or so years, the cultural discourse has devolved to such an extent that people cannot think even one move ahead. Zero tolerance manicheanism rules everything now.
  - crazygringo 6y ago
    None of those are analagous to the question at hand. People are clearly using the emoji they want because they want to in and of itself, end of story. They're not doing it to satisfy the government or access software or whatever. And no, I'm not looking for the word "instrumental", because emoji are about expression, which is literally the polar opposite of something being instrumental. Sometimes it's not about looking twenty moves ahead. Some things are just valuable in and of themselves. Some things are about the moment. Perhaps that's the perspective you're missing here? Just because some things are instrumental doesn't mean everything is. And thank goodness for that!
    - recursive 6y ago
      It's not clear to me that anyone went out of their way to select it. I mean, maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. I don't know all the UIs of all the devices that are capable of producing emoji characters.
    - jessedhillon 6y ago
      In my experience, "because I said so" is not a great argument. Just one look at the way these color pickers are presented on first use, and how that selection becomes the default thereafter, tells you everything you need to know about the flimsy basis of your claims. The picker pops up and interrupts you while you're in the middle of writing a message, and then persists your choice. It's a speed bump on the way to your actual goal -- gosh, does anyone have a word for that sort of thing? A person would have to be mighty well motivated to believe that this would be evidence of a latent demand for self-expression via skin tone.
      - crazygringo 6y ago
        In my experience, mischaracterizing other people's arguments is... not a great argument. A person would have to be mighty well blind to believe "because I said so" is what I wrote, or... well, to be so willfully ignorant of obvious consumer demand. You're making this far more complicated than it actually is, which suggests you have your own "motivation", though I don't want to guess what it is. I suggest you might want to talk to people who actually use the skin tone variants, since you seem so mystified by it. I think they will open your eyes for you. I mean, calling it "a speed bump on the way to your actual goal"... it seems clear you are totally ignorant of how deeply and patently offensive that statement is. Equating expressing one's skin color to a speed bump is... a pretty shocking thing to write. So maybe talk to some people who don't consider it a "speed bump". Actually educate yourself. And you'll see this is literally as simple as people building a feature for people who want it. End of story.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        5y ago
- kevincox 6y ago
  It's not non-default. When I used macOS every time I tried to send a new emoji for the first time it popped up a modal asking what colour I wanted. So the yellow was no more "default" than the skin-tone ones are.

If they're using something a lot that's non-default, and they have to go out of their way to select it...? Yeah, it does mean those people want it. There's literally no other way to interpret it.

jessedhillon 6y ago
People choose to pay their taxes, therefore people want taxes. People choose to accept EULAs before they use software, therefore people want EULAs. People choose to stay with spouses with whom they occasionally fight, therefore people want fighting in their lives. People choose to navigate complex civil bureaucracies in order to get things done, therefore they want bureaucracy. Or, people can suffer through a certain amount of bullshit in order to get to their goals. The word you're looking for is "instrumental" -- there's your missing interpretation. At some point in the past ten or so years, the cultural discourse has devolved to such an extent that people cannot think even one move ahead. Zero tolerance manicheanism rules everything now.
- crazygringo 6y ago
  None of those are analagous to the question at hand. People are clearly using the emoji they want because they want to in and of itself, end of story. They're not doing it to satisfy the government or access software or whatever. And no, I'm not looking for the word "instrumental", because emoji are about expression, which is literally the polar opposite of something being instrumental. Sometimes it's not about looking twenty moves ahead. Some things are just valuable in and of themselves. Some things are about the moment. Perhaps that's the perspective you're missing here? Just because some things are instrumental doesn't mean everything is. And thank goodness for that!
  - recursive 6y ago
    It's not clear to me that anyone went out of their way to select it. I mean, maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. I don't know all the UIs of all the devices that are capable of producing emoji characters.
  - jessedhillon 6y ago
    In my experience, "because I said so" is not a great argument. Just one look at the way these color pickers are presented on first use, and how that selection becomes the default thereafter, tells you everything you need to know about the flimsy basis of your claims. The picker pops up and interrupts you while you're in the middle of writing a message, and then persists your choice. It's a speed bump on the way to your actual goal -- gosh, does anyone have a word for that sort of thing? A person would have to be mighty well motivated to believe that this would be evidence of a latent demand for self-expression via skin tone.
    - crazygringo 6y ago
      In my experience, mischaracterizing other people's arguments is... not a great argument. A person would have to be mighty well blind to believe "because I said so" is what I wrote, or... well, to be so willfully ignorant of obvious consumer demand. You're making this far more complicated than it actually is, which suggests you have your own "motivation", though I don't want to guess what it is. I suggest you might want to talk to people who actually use the skin tone variants, since you seem so mystified by it. I think they will open your eyes for you. I mean, calling it "a speed bump on the way to your actual goal"... it seems clear you are totally ignorant of how deeply and patently offensive that statement is. Equating expressing one's skin color to a speed bump is... a pretty shocking thing to write. So maybe talk to some people who don't consider it a "speed bump". Actually educate yourself. And you'll see this is literally as simple as people building a feature for people who want it. End of story.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - 5y ago
kevincox 6y ago
It's not non-default. When I used macOS every time I tried to send a new emoji for the first time it popped up a modal asking what colour I wanted. So the yellow was no more "default" than the skin-tone ones are.