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"It has been estimated for the same horsepower, a Wave Disk Engine could weigh a thousand pounds less than a conventional engine." Erm... are there any convent

"It has been estimated for the same horsepower, a Wave Disk Engine could weigh a thousand pounds less than a conventional engine." Erm... are there any conventional engines that weigh 1000 pounds to begin with? Even high end V8s aren't that heavy. I wonder what they mean by that.

nuxi 15y ago
Was that a quote from the article? It now says "Researchers estimate the new model could shave almost 1,000 pounds off a car's weight currently taken up by conventional engine systems.". Still no additional explanation though.
jpitz 15y ago
Where did that quote come from? In the linked article, the closest I see is this: "Researchers estimate the new model could shave almost 1,000 pounds off a car's weight currently taken up by conventional engine systems." A somewhat different statement, though I still share your skepticism.
- reitzensteinm 15y ago
  I'm sorry - I was actually reading an article linked somewhere else in this thread, and forgot it wasn't the OP. (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Wave_Disk_Engine http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Wave_Disk_Engine) Still, even if we're talking about total savings for the car, 1000 pounds is a hell of a lot, and I'm not sure I buy it. For reference, that's 3x the weight of an average V6 (or some light V8s), so it would have to remove a lot and add nothing back. I found an engine weight list here that seems to be legitimate: http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt
  - checker 15y ago
    They mention "a prototype gasoline engine that requires no transmission, crankshaft, pistons, valves, fuel compression, cooling systems or fluids." So maybe add the weight of the engine plus the transmission and extra fluids required for both?
  - brudgers 15y ago
    Extrapolating from the article there's no transmission or cooling system either - that probably doesn't get you to 1000 pounds, but removing the structure which supports those heavy components might get you close. On the other hand, I don't think this would apply to cars with 25 kilowatt engines - a 1958 VW beetle only weighed 1600 pounds [http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=10196&i=2#menu http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=10196&...]
dabeeeenster 15y ago
If you include all the cooling, lubrication and exhaust systems in a conventional ICE car you might go some way towards that figure?
steelaz 15y ago
From the article: "However, researchers at Michigan State University have built a prototype gasoline engine that requires no transmission, crankshaft, pistons, valves, fuel compression, cooling systems or fluids." I think they considered all these parts when calculating weight savings.
- eftpotrm 15y ago
  OK - transmission and 'cooling system and fluids' are the only parts of that that aren't already counted in the engine, and with cooling system and fluids that's already being generous. So we're talking an engine that doesn't need a transmission and runs cool. Hmmm. Transmission often counts the differential, without which you can't very well turn corners. You're going to need a reverse gear at minimum and a big part of the point of a transmission is to let you keep the engine in an optimally efficient rev range, so I suspect it'll still gain one. No radiator? Possible, but to productionise it it'll have to be able to run in both Siberian and Saharan conditions. They're both a regular part of manufacturer sign-off tests for road cars, that it can handle extreme cold with lots of short runs to stop it warming up properly and extreme heat with lots of long runs and soak tests to stop it cooling properly. Personally, I'd expect it'll gain a cooling system. So, even if the gearbox, diff, radiator and all associated fluids weighed 1,000lbs (unlikely I think), I don't think they could gain their weight quota because I doubt they can really eliminate them.
  - ams6110 15y ago
    Please don't let rational thinking interfere with the marketing spin.
psyconn 15y ago
He designs an engine system. He scraps gearbox and transmission and replaces it with generator and electric motors. At 1:04 he says he will just stick the generator at the back and worry only about producing the required power.
- illumin8 15y ago
  Right, he says you will need to have electric motors to at least assist (hybrid technology) with rapid acceleration. Apparently this engine is probably very efficient at a fixed speed/rpm, and doesn't provide the torque of an ICE.

nuxi 15y ago

Was that a quote from the article? It now says "Researchers estimate the new model could shave almost 1,000 pounds off a car's weight currently taken up by conventional engine systems.". Still no additional explanation though.

jpitz 15y ago

Where did that quote come from? In the linked article, the closest I see is this: "Researchers estimate the new model could shave almost 1,000 pounds off a car's weight currently taken up by conventional engine systems." A somewhat different statement, though I still share your skepticism.

reitzensteinm 15y ago
I'm sorry - I was actually reading an article linked somewhere else in this thread, and forgot it wasn't the OP. (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Wave_Disk_Engine http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Wave_Disk_Engine) Still, even if we're talking about total savings for the car, 1000 pounds is a hell of a lot, and I'm not sure I buy it. For reference, that's 3x the weight of an average V6 (or some light V8s), so it would have to remove a lot and add nothing back. I found an engine weight list here that seems to be legitimate: http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt
- checker 15y ago
  They mention "a prototype gasoline engine that requires no transmission, crankshaft, pistons, valves, fuel compression, cooling systems or fluids." So maybe add the weight of the engine plus the transmission and extra fluids required for both?
- brudgers 15y ago
  Extrapolating from the article there's no transmission or cooling system either - that probably doesn't get you to 1000 pounds, but removing the structure which supports those heavy components might get you close. On the other hand, I don't think this would apply to cars with 25 kilowatt engines - a 1958 VW beetle only weighed 1600 pounds [http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=10196&i=2#menu http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=10196&...]

dabeeeenster 15y ago

If you include all the cooling, lubrication and exhaust systems in a conventional ICE car you might go some way towards that figure?

steelaz 15y ago

From the article: "However, researchers at Michigan State University have built a prototype gasoline engine that requires no transmission, crankshaft, pistons, valves, fuel compression, cooling systems or fluids." I think they considered all these parts when calculating weight savings.

eftpotrm 15y ago
OK - transmission and 'cooling system and fluids' are the only parts of that that aren't already counted in the engine, and with cooling system and fluids that's already being generous. So we're talking an engine that doesn't need a transmission and runs cool. Hmmm. Transmission often counts the differential, without which you can't very well turn corners. You're going to need a reverse gear at minimum and a big part of the point of a transmission is to let you keep the engine in an optimally efficient rev range, so I suspect it'll still gain one. No radiator? Possible, but to productionise it it'll have to be able to run in both Siberian and Saharan conditions. They're both a regular part of manufacturer sign-off tests for road cars, that it can handle extreme cold with lots of short runs to stop it warming up properly and extreme heat with lots of long runs and soak tests to stop it cooling properly. Personally, I'd expect it'll gain a cooling system. So, even if the gearbox, diff, radiator and all associated fluids weighed 1,000lbs (unlikely I think), I don't think they could gain their weight quota because I doubt they can really eliminate them.
- ams6110 15y ago
  Please don't let rational thinking interfere with the marketing spin.

psyconn 15y ago

He designs an engine system. He scraps gearbox and transmission and replaces it with generator and electric motors. At 1:04 he says he will just stick the generator at the back and worry only about producing the required power.

illumin8 15y ago
Right, he says you will need to have electric motors to at least assist (hybrid technology) with rapid acceleration. Apparently this engine is probably very efficient at a fixed speed/rpm, and doesn't provide the torque of an ICE.