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I know little about Teslas, so: > A hacker who exploits the vulnerabilities can perform any task that a regular user could from the infotainment system. That i

I know little about Teslas, so: > A hacker who exploits the vulnerabilities can perform any task that a regular user could from the infotainment system. That includes opening doors, changing seat positions, playing music, controlling the air conditioning, and modifying steering and acceleration modes. However, the researchers explained, “This attack does not yield drive control of the car though.” Two things. I feel the title of the article should have included this information, eg. "Tesla Car's Infotainment System Hacked Remotely.." to make the headline a little less scary. Secondly, though, can someone explain how "modifying steering and acceleration modes" does not "yield drive control"? This sounds like it does affect the driving of the car.

matt_s 5y ago
A headline less scary gets less clicks. Clicks is money to them.
WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
> opening doors > changing seat positions > modifying steering and acceleration modes > However, the researchers explained, “This attack does not yield drive control of the car though.” These researchers must have a very unorthodox opinion on what driving safety actually is. Hint: it's not only about the driver's safety.
fuzzy2 5y ago
> Secondly, though, can someone explain how "modifying steering and acceleration modes" does not "yield drive control"? This sounds like it does affect the driving of the car. I have a car (2019 Seat Leon) with Dynamic Chassis Control. Modes are Eco, Normal, Comfort and Sport. Of these, only Eco really has any special characteristics like reduced acceleration. So while it may indeed affect how the car drives and steers, it’s nothing dramatic. I’m sure it’s relatively similar in a Tesla. But maybe I’m just numb. :-)
- spinny 5y ago
  It might have some effect. On a car with electronic steering the drive mode changes how "heavy" the steering wheel feels, same for electronic suspensions (google drive-by-wire). my non expert assumption is that the wheels are controlled by some electronic system and the feedback provided through the steering wheel actuator.
  - dawnerd 5y ago
    Tesla’s are not real drive by wire so currently there’s no possibility of taking independent control over the wheels.
    - sleepybrett 5y ago
      How does autopilot work if it doesn't have 'real drive by wire'
      - fuzzy2 5y ago
        The same way lane assist worked before: using the actuator that is already present in virtually all modern cars for the power steering system. You can easily fight against it by holding the steering wheel.
        sleepybrett 5y ago
        But if i were asleep at the wheel or distracted at the wheel it could certainly drift me into the oncoming traffic lane which i might or might not notice.
      - dawnerd 5y ago
        Someone already mentioned but wanted to say it is surprising that theres essentially no real drive-by-wire car in production. And really there doesn't need to me. It's just added complexity and liability. Eventually they'll migrate that way as they work towards getting rid of the steering wheel but as long as thats around, the wheel will be directed connected to the power steering systems. This becomes obvious in a Tesla when you play that racing game on the MCU with the steering wheel as input. It moves the wheels. If the car was drive-by-wire they wouldn't move as thats just causing excess wear for no reason.
Smashure 5y ago
Tesla’s have steering modes (comfort, standard, racing) and acceleration modes (chill, standard, sport). That’s what they’re referring to. I may have the titles of the modes wrong. But the gist is the same.
- sleepybrett 5y ago
  ... insanity.
ajross 5y ago
Those modes are calibration settings. "Sport" mode allows a stiffer feel to the steering wheel, "Chill" acceleration prevents access to the top end of motor power, etc... You cannot command the car to turn or accelerate with them, they just change how it responds to command input from the user.
lenitabinol 5y ago
Changing the drive settings from "chill" to "sport" will increase the acceleration by 15% or so. This doesn't allow control of the steering wheel.
magicalhippo 5y ago
There's been at least one car[1] where hackers gained access to the car electronics through the infotainment system. Not sure about the Tesla, but several other cars[2] have their infotainment connected to the rest of the control systems. So in general, it's not "just" the infotainment system. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs [2]: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/volkswagen-and-audi-cars-vulnerable-to-remote-hacking/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/volkswagen-an...
- EricE 5y ago
  I also remember a fairly recent (within last couple of years) where a hacker remotely killed a journalists Jeep while he was on the freeway. It was part of the story he was working on so thankfully it wasn’t unexpected. But I think they should have been in a parking lot and not on a freeway screwing around like that.
  - magicalhippo 5y ago
    That would be the video I linked to :) I linked the video as the Wired article was behind subscription wall.

matt_s 5y ago

A headline less scary gets less clicks. Clicks is money to them.

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago

> opening doors > changing seat positions > modifying steering and acceleration modes > However, the researchers explained, “This attack does not yield drive control of the car though.” These researchers must have a very unorthodox opinion on what driving safety actually is. Hint: it's not only about the driver's safety.

fuzzy2 5y ago

> Secondly, though, can someone explain how "modifying steering and acceleration modes" does not "yield drive control"? This sounds like it does affect the driving of the car. I have a car (2019 Seat Leon) with Dynamic Chassis Control. Modes are Eco, Normal, Comfort and Sport. Of these, only Eco really has any special characteristics like reduced acceleration. So while it may indeed affect how the car drives and steers, it’s nothing dramatic. I’m sure it’s relatively similar in a Tesla. But maybe I’m just numb. :-)

spinny 5y ago
It might have some effect. On a car with electronic steering the drive mode changes how "heavy" the steering wheel feels, same for electronic suspensions (google drive-by-wire). my non expert assumption is that the wheels are controlled by some electronic system and the feedback provided through the steering wheel actuator.
- dawnerd 5y ago
  Tesla’s are not real drive by wire so currently there’s no possibility of taking independent control over the wheels.
  - sleepybrett 5y ago
    How does autopilot work if it doesn't have 'real drive by wire'
    - fuzzy2 5y ago
      The same way lane assist worked before: using the actuator that is already present in virtually all modern cars for the power steering system. You can easily fight against it by holding the steering wheel.
      - sleepybrett 5y ago
        But if i were asleep at the wheel or distracted at the wheel it could certainly drift me into the oncoming traffic lane which i might or might not notice.
    - dawnerd 5y ago
      Someone already mentioned but wanted to say it is surprising that theres essentially no real drive-by-wire car in production. And really there doesn't need to me. It's just added complexity and liability. Eventually they'll migrate that way as they work towards getting rid of the steering wheel but as long as thats around, the wheel will be directed connected to the power steering systems. This becomes obvious in a Tesla when you play that racing game on the MCU with the steering wheel as input. It moves the wheels. If the car was drive-by-wire they wouldn't move as thats just causing excess wear for no reason.

Smashure 5y ago

Tesla’s have steering modes (comfort, standard, racing) and acceleration modes (chill, standard, sport). That’s what they’re referring to. I may have the titles of the modes wrong. But the gist is the same.

sleepybrett 5y ago
... insanity.

ajross 5y ago

Those modes are calibration settings. "Sport" mode allows a stiffer feel to the steering wheel, "Chill" acceleration prevents access to the top end of motor power, etc... You cannot command the car to turn or accelerate with them, they just change how it responds to command input from the user.

lenitabinol 5y ago

Changing the drive settings from "chill" to "sport" will increase the acceleration by 15% or so. This doesn't allow control of the steering wheel.

magicalhippo 5y ago

There's been at least one car[1] where hackers gained access to the car electronics through the infotainment system. Not sure about the Tesla, but several other cars[2] have their infotainment connected to the rest of the control systems. So in general, it's not "just" the infotainment system. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs [2]: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/volkswagen-and-audi-cars-vulnerable-to-remote-hacking/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/volkswagen-an...

EricE 5y ago
I also remember a fairly recent (within last couple of years) where a hacker remotely killed a journalists Jeep while he was on the freeway. It was part of the story he was working on so thankfully it wasn’t unexpected. But I think they should have been in a parking lot and not on a freeway screwing around like that.
- magicalhippo 5y ago
  That would be the video I linked to :) I linked the video as the Wired article was behind subscription wall.