10 ms·

Did prions survive cooking? I'd have thought cooking the beef would have killed them.

colechristensen 5y ago
If you took affected neural tissue and burned it to ash on a wood fire, there remains (although low) infective potential but probably only if you were trying in a lab. It takes 1000 C incineration to defeat infectivity and even then they’re still detectable. Composting so the proteins are broken down biologically is also an alternative. No amount of cooking prions that leave anything you want to eat makes infected material safe.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Agree that cooking is not an option. You can actually get that 1000C down to 600C if you also soak the tissue in acid prior to burning.
  - FredPret 5y ago
    That pretty much describes how I cook my steaks, a nice H2SO4 marinade followed by ten minutes in a bonfire
    - shoemakersteve 5y ago
      As long as you don't put ketchup on it.
- robbiep 5y ago
  I’m not so sure about the composting - the breakdown of organic material (well, protein in this case) in soils is largely brought about by proteases and proteases are largely ineffective
- jonnycomputer 5y ago
  I thought 200C for an hour was enough.
Hypergraphe 5y ago
Yes they do. From wikipedia : Prion aggregates are stable, and this structural stability means that prions are resistant to denaturation by chemical and physical agents: they cannot be destroyed by ordinary disinfection or cooking. This makes disposal and containment of these particles difficult.
rndude 5y ago
Prions are incredible hard to destroy. To quote from Wikipedia: `Prion aggregates are stable, and this structural stability means that prions are resistant to denaturation by chemical and physical agents: they cannot be destroyed by ordinary disinfection or cooking.`
- StavrosK 5y ago
  Oooof...
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
  Iirc hospitals that treat patients with prion diseases incinerate all materials that contact the patients. I don't know how they sanitize the rooms but it can't be cheap or eco friendly.
  - turing_complete 5y ago
    Destroying prions is eco friendly.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
      Humans need a non toxic environment. Plants, and life in general, will find a way. With, and without, us.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    Chemical agents which cause protein-crosslinking would be the preferred method - you can broadly make every side-group reactive and cause them all to stitch together with anything else organic, which tends to inactivate them (makes them a big blob which can't do much). But it's nasty stuff to work with, since it also happily does tons of damage to the proteins making up the humans applying it.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
      Do you have an example of such a chemical being used to effectively remediate prion contaminated environments?
neartheplain 5y ago
Yes, prions can survive cooking. Emphasis mine: > 134 °C (273 °F) for 18 minutes in a pressurized steam autoclave has been found to be somewhat effective in deactivating the agent of disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion#Sterilization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion#Sterilization
basicplus2 5y ago
Yes and they can pass on to other patients from surgical tools https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/surgical-exposure-to-cjd-prion/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/surgical-exposure...
petre 5y ago
Yes they do, unfortunately. And there are recently discovered cases of chronic wasting disease (CWD) in elk, deer and moose worldwide. I hope it doesn't pass to humans. For the time being I'll refrain from eating game.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I would be more worried about beef. There has been no evidence of CWD jumping to humans, but there has been for BSE. Also, do you have a link for the distribution? My understanding is that it is spread over a large geographic area, but that it's found in smaller clumps.
  - petre 5y ago
    There are several maps and studies, depending on which country you're interested in. The best one that I've found was for Norway. Needless to say, it's spreading over an increasingly larger area every year. Yes, BSE is also worrying, but beef that you buy at supermarkets is also checked more thoroughly compared to game meat. I'd worry more about restaurants and their suppliers.
LorenPechtel 5y ago
The only way to destroy prions is to destroy all protein in the material. What's left wouldn't be worth eating.

If you took affected neural tissue and burned it to ash on a wood fire, there remains (although low) infective potential but probably only if you were trying in a lab. It takes 1000 C incineration to defeat infectivity and even then they’re still detectable. Composting so the proteins are broken down biologically is also an alternative. No amount of cooking prions that leave anything you want to eat makes infected material safe.

giantg2 5y ago
Agree that cooking is not an option. You can actually get that 1000C down to 600C if you also soak the tissue in acid prior to burning.
- FredPret 5y ago
  That pretty much describes how I cook my steaks, a nice H2SO4 marinade followed by ten minutes in a bonfire
  - shoemakersteve 5y ago
    As long as you don't put ketchup on it.
robbiep 5y ago
I’m not so sure about the composting - the breakdown of organic material (well, protein in this case) in soils is largely brought about by proteases and proteases are largely ineffective
jonnycomputer 5y ago
I thought 200C for an hour was enough.

Hypergraphe 5y ago

Yes they do. From wikipedia : Prion aggregates are stable, and this structural stability means that prions are resistant to denaturation by chemical and physical agents: they cannot be destroyed by ordinary disinfection or cooking. This makes disposal and containment of these particles difficult.

rndude 5y ago

Prions are incredible hard to destroy. To quote from Wikipedia: `Prion aggregates are stable, and this structural stability means that prions are resistant to denaturation by chemical and physical agents: they cannot be destroyed by ordinary disinfection or cooking.`

StavrosK 5y ago
Oooof...
Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
Iirc hospitals that treat patients with prion diseases incinerate all materials that contact the patients. I don't know how they sanitize the rooms but it can't be cheap or eco friendly.
- turing_complete 5y ago
  Destroying prions is eco friendly.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    Humans need a non toxic environment. Plants, and life in general, will find a way. With, and without, us.
- XorNot 5y ago
  Chemical agents which cause protein-crosslinking would be the preferred method - you can broadly make every side-group reactive and cause them all to stitch together with anything else organic, which tends to inactivate them (makes them a big blob which can't do much). But it's nasty stuff to work with, since it also happily does tons of damage to the proteins making up the humans applying it.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    Do you have an example of such a chemical being used to effectively remediate prion contaminated environments?

neartheplain 5y ago

Yes, prions can survive cooking. Emphasis mine: > 134 °C (273 °F) for 18 minutes in a pressurized steam autoclave has been found to be somewhat effective in deactivating the agent of disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion#Sterilization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion#Sterilization

basicplus2 5y ago

Yes and they can pass on to other patients from surgical tools https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/surgical-exposure-to-cjd-prion/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/surgical-exposure...

petre 5y ago

Yes they do, unfortunately. And there are recently discovered cases of chronic wasting disease (CWD) in elk, deer and moose worldwide. I hope it doesn't pass to humans. For the time being I'll refrain from eating game.

giantg2 5y ago
I would be more worried about beef. There has been no evidence of CWD jumping to humans, but there has been for BSE. Also, do you have a link for the distribution? My understanding is that it is spread over a large geographic area, but that it's found in smaller clumps.
- petre 5y ago
  There are several maps and studies, depending on which country you're interested in. The best one that I've found was for Norway. Needless to say, it's spreading over an increasingly larger area every year. Yes, BSE is also worrying, but beef that you buy at supermarkets is also checked more thoroughly compared to game meat. I'd worry more about restaurants and their suppliers.

LorenPechtel 5y ago

The only way to destroy prions is to destroy all protein in the material. What's left wouldn't be worth eating.