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I think this is more likely a situation akin to Saudia Flight 163 or Helios Airways Flight 52. The plane had a fire onboard, which either disabled the transpon

I think this is more likely a situation akin to Saudia Flight 163 or Helios Airways Flight 52. The plane had a fire onboard, which either disabled the transponder or the pilots deliberately disabled power to it as part of fighting the fire. They then turned towards their alternate, but poor crew resource management, the stress of dealing with the problem, and hypoxia impaired their judgement, so they missed their alternate. Eventually, the hypoxia incapacitated both pilots and the plane flew on autopilot till it ran out of fuel. The most likely source of ignition would be the consignment of lithium batteries it was carrying. A similar situation brought down UPS Airlines Flight 6 and probably Asiana Airlines Flight 991.

SiempreViernes 5y ago
Except in all your examples the pilots spoke to air traffic control announcing they were experienced problems, and there is no plausible reason for why they wouldn't send out a distress call: if your plane is on fire you really wish someone could help you. In the case of your fire examples, beyond just speaking to ATC, the planes returned to ground (landing or otherwise) within half an hour. In contrast, MH370 stayed in the air at least 6 hours past the last communication from the pilots, who did not try to contact ATC at any point after leaving their expected flight path.
- saberdancer 5y ago
  To be fair, they are trained to handle the emergency first and talk second (The axiom “Aviate, Navigate, Communicate” teaches pilots to fly the airplane first, then navigate, and once the situation is under control, communicate.). If it was a rapid situation and co-pilot was not available it's not impossible that the call was not made. More damning is the timing of the transponder being turned off. It happened on ATC switchover.
  - smashah 5y ago
    During pilot training, you're taught to use the axiom when time is slim and there's a lot to do. There's no way to aviate for 6 hours straight on an airliner and not have time to communicate. The mayday call takes all of 10 seconds to make for a single person. Sully was in a time crunch and still communicated which isn't a super human feat.
    - saberdancer 5y ago
      Yes, I am aware. But if we take things to extreme, it's possible there was a urgent situation (fire in the cockpit) that the pilot did not have time to communicate before losing the ability.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - awb 5y ago
        But the plane maneuvered several times after that with power going off and back on.
      - smashah 5y ago
        Ok I will put myself in your hypothetical. If there was a fire in the cockpit of my cessna, I would try my best to suppress the fire and instruct the other pilot to make a mayday call. Communication becomes a bit higher priority when the situation is that dire where no amount of "aviating" would make much difference. This is one of those things where we never find out the truth unfortunately.
        saberdancer 5y ago
        I am just playing the devils advocate. If there was some sudden emergency, fire in the cockpit while copilot was outside, it is possible that the pilot wouldn't have time to communicate before losing the ability. But if we take everything into consideration, three additional turns, direction where the plane went, exact moment when the plane lost it's transponder, ... - the most likely explanation is pilot suicide.
      - SiempreViernes 5y ago
        Sure, but why would the plane fly fine if the cockpit is dramatically on fire? I doubt the automated systems fly plane good if the circuit breakers are all in the "on fire" state.
- scoopertrooper 5y ago
  In the case of UPS Airlines Flight 6, they did send a message out to air traffic control, but only by relaying messages via nearby aircraft. > The thick smoke required the pilots to communicate with nearby planes over VHF to relay messages to Bahrain ATC, as Bell was unable to see the radio through the smoke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6 Given that whatever happened to MH370 occurred during an ATC handover (similar to UPS Airlines Flight 6), it's not hard to believe that the following scenario occurred: * Shortly after the handover from Kuala Lumpur ATC to Ho Chi Minh ATC the crew realise there is a fire on the aircraft * The pilot-in-command focuses on navigating to the alternate, while the pilot-observing runs through the fire checklist * As they transit away from Ho Chi Minh ATC they lose range of the signal * They don't prioritise switching ATC because they're still quite far away from their alternate and they are busily trying to get the fire under control * Smoke enters the cockpit at this time and hinders their ability to operate the radio equipment * They either lose track of the alternate because they are distracted by the fire or determine they can't land till the fire is under control (possibly because they cannot contact ATC), so they end up flying across Malaysia * They eventually realise their error and attempt to turn back, but by this point oxygen in the cabin has depleted and they are unable to complete the maneuver These sorts of things can happen, the three-person crew of Eastern Air Lines Flight 401 were so distracted debugging a faulty light bulb that they didn't notice the autopilot disengaging and their plane slowly losing altitude before crashing. I imagine had the CVR not survived, people might be speculating that a member of that crew may have purposely crashed it.
saberdancer 5y ago
For this to be true, the incident would need to happen immediately after they signed off from air traffic control Kuala Lumpur. It's possible, but it is just another in the line of coincidences that would need to happen for it to be something other than deliberate act by someone.

SiempreViernes 5y ago

Except in all your examples the pilots spoke to air traffic control announcing they were experienced problems, and there is no plausible reason for why they wouldn't send out a distress call: if your plane is on fire you really wish someone could help you. In the case of your fire examples, beyond just speaking to ATC, the planes returned to ground (landing or otherwise) within half an hour. In contrast, MH370 stayed in the air at least 6 hours past the last communication from the pilots, who did not try to contact ATC at any point after leaving their expected flight path.

saberdancer 5y ago
To be fair, they are trained to handle the emergency first and talk second (The axiom “Aviate, Navigate, Communicate” teaches pilots to fly the airplane first, then navigate, and once the situation is under control, communicate.). If it was a rapid situation and co-pilot was not available it's not impossible that the call was not made. More damning is the timing of the transponder being turned off. It happened on ATC switchover.
- smashah 5y ago
  During pilot training, you're taught to use the axiom when time is slim and there's a lot to do. There's no way to aviate for 6 hours straight on an airliner and not have time to communicate. The mayday call takes all of 10 seconds to make for a single person. Sully was in a time crunch and still communicated which isn't a super human feat.
  - saberdancer 5y ago
    Yes, I am aware. But if we take things to extreme, it's possible there was a urgent situation (fire in the cockpit) that the pilot did not have time to communicate before losing the ability.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - awb 5y ago
      But the plane maneuvered several times after that with power going off and back on.
    - smashah 5y ago
      Ok I will put myself in your hypothetical. If there was a fire in the cockpit of my cessna, I would try my best to suppress the fire and instruct the other pilot to make a mayday call. Communication becomes a bit higher priority when the situation is that dire where no amount of "aviating" would make much difference. This is one of those things where we never find out the truth unfortunately.
      - saberdancer 5y ago
        I am just playing the devils advocate. If there was some sudden emergency, fire in the cockpit while copilot was outside, it is possible that the pilot wouldn't have time to communicate before losing the ability. But if we take everything into consideration, three additional turns, direction where the plane went, exact moment when the plane lost it's transponder, ... - the most likely explanation is pilot suicide.
    - SiempreViernes 5y ago
      Sure, but why would the plane fly fine if the cockpit is dramatically on fire? I doubt the automated systems fly plane good if the circuit breakers are all in the "on fire" state.
scoopertrooper 5y ago
In the case of UPS Airlines Flight 6, they did send a message out to air traffic control, but only by relaying messages via nearby aircraft. > The thick smoke required the pilots to communicate with nearby planes over VHF to relay messages to Bahrain ATC, as Bell was unable to see the radio through the smoke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6 Given that whatever happened to MH370 occurred during an ATC handover (similar to UPS Airlines Flight 6), it's not hard to believe that the following scenario occurred: * Shortly after the handover from Kuala Lumpur ATC to Ho Chi Minh ATC the crew realise there is a fire on the aircraft * The pilot-in-command focuses on navigating to the alternate, while the pilot-observing runs through the fire checklist * As they transit away from Ho Chi Minh ATC they lose range of the signal * They don't prioritise switching ATC because they're still quite far away from their alternate and they are busily trying to get the fire under control * Smoke enters the cockpit at this time and hinders their ability to operate the radio equipment * They either lose track of the alternate because they are distracted by the fire or determine they can't land till the fire is under control (possibly because they cannot contact ATC), so they end up flying across Malaysia * They eventually realise their error and attempt to turn back, but by this point oxygen in the cabin has depleted and they are unable to complete the maneuver These sorts of things can happen, the three-person crew of Eastern Air Lines Flight 401 were so distracted debugging a faulty light bulb that they didn't notice the autopilot disengaging and their plane slowly losing altitude before crashing. I imagine had the CVR not survived, people might be speculating that a member of that crew may have purposely crashed it.

saberdancer 5y ago

For this to be true, the incident would need to happen immediately after they signed off from air traffic control Kuala Lumpur. It's possible, but it is just another in the line of coincidences that would need to happen for it to be something other than deliberate act by someone.