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This is of course the worst take. When I was in 4th grade we had to read a short story about a society that enforced sameness, it wasn’t the giver where they di

by vxNsr 5y ago

This is of course the worst take. When I was in 4th grade we had to read a short story about a society that enforced sameness, it wasn’t the giver where they did it genetically, rather if you were smart they’d fix headphones to your ears that played a loud obnoxious noise so you couldn’t think, if you were tall or athletic they crippled you, basically they brought everyone down to the same bad level... That’s the society you’re trying to build. ETA: people are logging their disagreement in downvotes but I haven’t seen a counter argument to this at any point in this thread, I’m ok with the dv, just interested in hearing the opposing view.

Huggernaut 5y ago
I imagine the downvotes are mainly because the comparison seems pretty off base, regardless of whether one agrees with the good or bad of the original post. Comparing "you are now in a situation where you may have an opportunity to empathise with difficulties others have had" to "you are trying to build a society where more fortunate people are harmed in the name of sameness" doesn't resonate at all.
- vxNsr 5y ago
  Ah, the comparison is coming from the fact that the GP is describing a bad situation he’s in and the response is essentially “you deserve it” and “think of the starving children in Africa”. My point is that sort of thinking creates a less humane society.
  - Huggernaut 5y ago
    Right, I don't really agree with your interpretation, though I can understand how you might read it that way. As I wrote above, I read it as "take this as a learning opportunity to empathise with others", which I would think leads to a _more_ humane society.
    - vxNsr 5y ago
      Telling someone how to "empathize" is probably the most condescending thing that "progressives" tell others to do. Somehow it only comes out when the person preaching it feels extreme pity for the person in need of "empathy" and most importantly the preacher is the only one who really understands how to give that empathy, no one else is able to reach their level of enlightenment. Of course this creates a problem when two such preachers are in the same room... Additionally, most of the time the pitied person doesn't want your pity or empathy they just want to live their life and are usually pretty happy until you come along and start telling them they need empathy and how bad their life really is.
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  You are exactly right. The funny thing is that the short story in question, Harrison Bergeron, was meant as a satire of right-wing fears of slippery slopes toward sameness. It's no coincidence that the comparison is made here; the comparison is exactly what Kurt Vonnegut was making fun of when he wrote the story.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    Most critiques of the story entirely disagree with your interpretation. I couldn’t find anything specific about how the author meant it to be understood but it appears that most understand it as I interpreted it when I was 9 years old.
SantalBlush 5y ago
I am on the other side of this debate, and I have plenty of downvotes from my comments in this thread without counter arguments. That's HN in a nutshell. My advice to you is to get over it.
- vxNsr 5y ago
  I’m not complaining about the downvotes, but I’d like to understand what the disagreement is. I’m sorry that people do that. I generally will respond if I disagree instead of downvoting. I’ll take a look at your comment history and see if I have time to address it. ETA: I’ve looked over your comments, aside from one that appears to be sarcastic everything you say has a response to it. I added my own comment to one of them as well. I think resigning ourselves to Twitter-like flame wars without actually talking things out isn’t very hn like at all.
  - SantalBlush 5y ago
    It's not your fault, and besides, I received a more recent reply to one. These are heated topics that likely won't be resolved on HN comments sections. Edit: I read your edit. It appears that in your mind, comments that disagree with you resemble a Twitter flame war, and comments agreeing with you are well articulated and thoughtful. In reality, your comments are just as negative and one-sided as the others you disparage.
    - vxNsr 5y ago
      > Edit: I read your edit. It appears that in your mind, comments that disagree with you resemble a Twitter flame war, and comments agreeing with you are well articulated and thoughtful. In reality, your comments are just as negative and one-sided as the others you disparage. Just the opposite, I welcome disagreement. I just don’t like being attacked without knowing why.
      - SantalBlush 5y ago
        Not sure who downvoted you, but the fact that you characterize a downvote as an "attack" gets to the core of the problem. Namely, you seem to think even the most minor form of disagreement (a downvote) makes you some sort of victim.
DanBC 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113264/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113264/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0
- vxNsr 5y ago
  Sounds about right.
- paulddraper 5y ago
  2001: Most ridiculous thing I ever read. 2021: Uh...guys...?

by vxNsr 5y ago

Huggernaut 5y ago

I imagine the downvotes are mainly because the comparison seems pretty off base, regardless of whether one agrees with the good or bad of the original post. Comparing "you are now in a situation where you may have an opportunity to empathise with difficulties others have had" to "you are trying to build a society where more fortunate people are harmed in the name of sameness" doesn't resonate at all.

vxNsr 5y ago
Ah, the comparison is coming from the fact that the GP is describing a bad situation he’s in and the response is essentially “you deserve it” and “think of the starving children in Africa”. My point is that sort of thinking creates a less humane society.
- Huggernaut 5y ago
  Right, I don't really agree with your interpretation, though I can understand how you might read it that way. As I wrote above, I read it as "take this as a learning opportunity to empathise with others", which I would think leads to a _more_ humane society.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    Telling someone how to "empathize" is probably the most condescending thing that "progressives" tell others to do. Somehow it only comes out when the person preaching it feels extreme pity for the person in need of "empathy" and most importantly the preacher is the only one who really understands how to give that empathy, no one else is able to reach their level of enlightenment. Of course this creates a problem when two such preachers are in the same room... Additionally, most of the time the pitied person doesn't want your pity or empathy they just want to live their life and are usually pretty happy until you come along and start telling them they need empathy and how bad their life really is.
SantalBlush 5y ago
You are exactly right. The funny thing is that the short story in question, Harrison Bergeron, was meant as a satire of right-wing fears of slippery slopes toward sameness. It's no coincidence that the comparison is made here; the comparison is exactly what Kurt Vonnegut was making fun of when he wrote the story.
- vxNsr 5y ago
  Most critiques of the story entirely disagree with your interpretation. I couldn’t find anything specific about how the author meant it to be understood but it appears that most understand it as I interpreted it when I was 9 years old.

SantalBlush 5y ago

I am on the other side of this debate, and I have plenty of downvotes from my comments in this thread without counter arguments. That's HN in a nutshell. My advice to you is to get over it.

vxNsr 5y ago
I’m not complaining about the downvotes, but I’d like to understand what the disagreement is. I’m sorry that people do that. I generally will respond if I disagree instead of downvoting. I’ll take a look at your comment history and see if I have time to address it. ETA: I’ve looked over your comments, aside from one that appears to be sarcastic everything you say has a response to it. I added my own comment to one of them as well. I think resigning ourselves to Twitter-like flame wars without actually talking things out isn’t very hn like at all.
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  It's not your fault, and besides, I received a more recent reply to one. These are heated topics that likely won't be resolved on HN comments sections. Edit: I read your edit. It appears that in your mind, comments that disagree with you resemble a Twitter flame war, and comments agreeing with you are well articulated and thoughtful. In reality, your comments are just as negative and one-sided as the others you disparage.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    > Edit: I read your edit. It appears that in your mind, comments that disagree with you resemble a Twitter flame war, and comments agreeing with you are well articulated and thoughtful. In reality, your comments are just as negative and one-sided as the others you disparage. Just the opposite, I welcome disagreement. I just don’t like being attacked without knowing why.
    - SantalBlush 5y ago
      Not sure who downvoted you, but the fact that you characterize a downvote as an "attack" gets to the core of the problem. Namely, you seem to think even the most minor form of disagreement (a downvote) makes you some sort of victim.

DanBC 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113264/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113264/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

vxNsr 5y ago
Sounds about right.
paulddraper 5y ago
2001: Most ridiculous thing I ever read. 2021: Uh...guys...?