6 ms·

If this is true or means the suicide/mass murder theory is true. Basically the germanwings scenario except much more intricately planned. I still can't imagine

If this is true or means the suicide/mass murder theory is true. Basically the germanwings scenario except much more intricately planned. I still can't imagine how sick a person can be to do this. If he wanted to kill himself he should just have jumped off a bridge. I'm kinda still hoping it's wrong and there was a proper reason behind this. But either way I hope the families will het some kind of closure.

mylons 6y ago
misery loves company
IntemerateApe 6y ago
perhaps they want to go down in history, or they are so bitter and resentful they want to take others down. Like kids who do school shootings.. Not sure though.
- schoen 6y ago
  > perhaps they want to go down in history Many people have done things like that in history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus), but that's also hard to reconcile with disguising one's role and responsibility and preventing proof of either from being established, isn't it?
gustavo-fring 6y ago
"I still can't imagine how sick a person can be to do this. If he wanted to kill himself he should just have jumped off a bridge." It seems difficult for emotionally healthy people to understand how unhealthy people are thinking and acting. I suspect he had some latent genetic triggers and whatever happened in life slowly chipped away at the human part that guards against going code red. If you think about it, I, being a person without covid (hopefully) don't have any clue what it's like to be on my deathbed with covid. If I did, I'd probably act differently. What scares me about it some is that this kind of inability to understand is what leads to conspiracy theories. Stephen Paddock couldn't have just been a narcissistic vengeful loner that did what he did because he was that depraved. No, there must be a bigger more complex, more ridiculous explanation. Paddock was actually making an arms deal with the Saudis, Of course, being ex-FBI (or whatever) himself, when that deal went wrong to "cover" his tracks he shot up a concert. I mean it is absurd on its face but when you get this dynamic of not understanding how other people behave, you get these almost supernatural explanations. Of course, you're not doing any of that, just throwing out my 2 cents.
- sjg007 6y ago
  To understand a narcissist you have to look at their immediate area of control. When they can't control the thing that gives them relief or it falls apart, they will proceed to destroy it. This exists at every level and is only countered by checks and balances on power. Or you can choose to exit.
  - grioghar 6y ago
    What you’ve just detailed here is exactly why there was an elevated level of concern during a particular 4-year window, and a general sigh of relief once that time had passed.
    - gustavo-fring 6y ago
      I think you are absolutely on the money here, but I also think we didn't benefit and he benefitted greatly from the fact that people jumped to comparing him with one of the worst dictators of all time. Did his personality dispose him to possibly becoming something like that? Had his coup succeeded I'm sure we'd be closer. But he was compared to a mass murderer (conveniently in living memory, no comparisons to Timur or other autocrats) before he'd done anything but say tactless things. That enabled him to paint all criticisms of him as absurd (even though he would have anyway).
    - sjg007 6y ago
      If you think that's over, think again. It is not enough to forget; we need to obliviate 45.
      - gustavo-fring 6y ago
        We need to understand that 45 is a symptom of a social and political system and not a one-off uniquely bad example.
        kmonsen 6y ago
        That is such a true and obvious statement, it was also an (most likely unintentional) trial run for the next one that will be more dangerous.
philliphaydon 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185 It’s happened before unfortunately :(
- userbinator 6y ago
  More recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525
gumby 6y ago
> I still can't imagine how sick a person can be to do this. If he wanted to kill himself he should just have jumped off a bridge. Jumping off a bridge seems quite difficult in the moment. Whereas it may be much easier to simply do what you always do, being distracted a bit by the need to execute details (that may feel emotionally innocuous) until you gradually slip across a point of no return and the decision is out of your hands. You could even work on controlling the plane all the way to the water, just as you were trained to until, of course, there was nothing further you could do. I do imagine that some passengers and crew must have noticed something weird about the in flight maps. Almost the entire flight path is out of phone range though so unless there was satellite internet there would have been nothing any crew could have done. Cockpit doors are armored these days.
- gumby 6y ago
  BTW the Langweiche article in The Atlantic suggests that the passengers and crew were asphyxiated by flying over 40K feet for a period, hence no objections. Also the the end of the plane was seemingly more violent than simple descent. This doesn't contradict my vague scenario, but I wrote it after having read the posted article (about the clever ham radio hack) but before reading Langweiche's article which was mentioned in another comment.
- guenthert 6y ago
  > Cockpit doors are armored these days. Perhaps there should be a device capable of sending a distress signal accessible from the cabin by flight-attendants?
  - tirant 6y ago
    Or even better. A device capable of sending that distress signal automatically without any intervention of the crew. It's not difficult to automatically detect emergency situations based on the different sensor readings available in a commercial plane. A similar solution could also be applicable to other means of transport. E.g. A similar solution would have been extremely useful for the indonesian submarine lost weeks ago.
fighterpilot 6y ago
This was a way to commit suicide while preserving honor (for himself or family) post-death, which is important to some people.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  How is there any honor in murdering hundreds of innocent people?
  - ergocoder 6y ago
    You can't prove that, and that's why we still have the discussion. I'm sure there is an insurance payout at play as well.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    There isn't, which is why the pilot would have made it difficult or impossible to prove that's what happened. Without a determination of wrongdoing, his family would be in the clear, and would get any life insurance or pension payouts.
  - fighterpilot 6y ago
    I'm talking about other people's perceptions of him. If he thought he could make it look like an accident, it looks "better" (to some people) to die in a freak plane crash than it does to kill themselves (which looks "weak"). The insurance money is probably a better explanation but I think the above psychology would apply to quite a few people who wouldn't want to saddle their family with the perceived embarrassment of committing suicide.

mylons 6y ago

misery loves company

IntemerateApe 6y ago

perhaps they want to go down in history, or they are so bitter and resentful they want to take others down. Like kids who do school shootings.. Not sure though.

schoen 6y ago
> perhaps they want to go down in history Many people have done things like that in history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus), but that's also hard to reconcile with disguising one's role and responsibility and preventing proof of either from being established, isn't it?

gustavo-fring 6y ago

"I still can't imagine how sick a person can be to do this. If he wanted to kill himself he should just have jumped off a bridge." It seems difficult for emotionally healthy people to understand how unhealthy people are thinking and acting. I suspect he had some latent genetic triggers and whatever happened in life slowly chipped away at the human part that guards against going code red. If you think about it, I, being a person without covid (hopefully) don't have any clue what it's like to be on my deathbed with covid. If I did, I'd probably act differently. What scares me about it some is that this kind of inability to understand is what leads to conspiracy theories. Stephen Paddock couldn't have just been a narcissistic vengeful loner that did what he did because he was that depraved. No, there must be a bigger more complex, more ridiculous explanation. Paddock was actually making an arms deal with the Saudis, Of course, being ex-FBI (or whatever) himself, when that deal went wrong to "cover" his tracks he shot up a concert. I mean it is absurd on its face but when you get this dynamic of not understanding how other people behave, you get these almost supernatural explanations. Of course, you're not doing any of that, just throwing out my 2 cents.

sjg007 6y ago
To understand a narcissist you have to look at their immediate area of control. When they can't control the thing that gives them relief or it falls apart, they will proceed to destroy it. This exists at every level and is only countered by checks and balances on power. Or you can choose to exit.
- grioghar 6y ago
  What you’ve just detailed here is exactly why there was an elevated level of concern during a particular 4-year window, and a general sigh of relief once that time had passed.
  - gustavo-fring 6y ago
    I think you are absolutely on the money here, but I also think we didn't benefit and he benefitted greatly from the fact that people jumped to comparing him with one of the worst dictators of all time. Did his personality dispose him to possibly becoming something like that? Had his coup succeeded I'm sure we'd be closer. But he was compared to a mass murderer (conveniently in living memory, no comparisons to Timur or other autocrats) before he'd done anything but say tactless things. That enabled him to paint all criticisms of him as absurd (even though he would have anyway).
  - sjg007 6y ago
    If you think that's over, think again. It is not enough to forget; we need to obliviate 45.
    - gustavo-fring 6y ago
      We need to understand that 45 is a symptom of a social and political system and not a one-off uniquely bad example.
      - kmonsen 6y ago
        That is such a true and obvious statement, it was also an (most likely unintentional) trial run for the next one that will be more dangerous.

philliphaydon 6y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185 It’s happened before unfortunately :(

userbinator 6y ago
More recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

gumby 6y ago

> I still can't imagine how sick a person can be to do this. If he wanted to kill himself he should just have jumped off a bridge. Jumping off a bridge seems quite difficult in the moment. Whereas it may be much easier to simply do what you always do, being distracted a bit by the need to execute details (that may feel emotionally innocuous) until you gradually slip across a point of no return and the decision is out of your hands. You could even work on controlling the plane all the way to the water, just as you were trained to until, of course, there was nothing further you could do. I do imagine that some passengers and crew must have noticed something weird about the in flight maps. Almost the entire flight path is out of phone range though so unless there was satellite internet there would have been nothing any crew could have done. Cockpit doors are armored these days.

gumby 6y ago
BTW the Langweiche article in The Atlantic suggests that the passengers and crew were asphyxiated by flying over 40K feet for a period, hence no objections. Also the the end of the plane was seemingly more violent than simple descent. This doesn't contradict my vague scenario, but I wrote it after having read the posted article (about the clever ham radio hack) but before reading Langweiche's article which was mentioned in another comment.
guenthert 6y ago
> Cockpit doors are armored these days. Perhaps there should be a device capable of sending a distress signal accessible from the cabin by flight-attendants?
- tirant 6y ago
  Or even better. A device capable of sending that distress signal automatically without any intervention of the crew. It's not difficult to automatically detect emergency situations based on the different sensor readings available in a commercial plane. A similar solution could also be applicable to other means of transport. E.g. A similar solution would have been extremely useful for the indonesian submarine lost weeks ago.

fighterpilot 6y ago

This was a way to commit suicide while preserving honor (for himself or family) post-death, which is important to some people.

GekkePrutser 6y ago
How is there any honor in murdering hundreds of innocent people?
- ergocoder 6y ago
  You can't prove that, and that's why we still have the discussion. I'm sure there is an insurance payout at play as well.
- kelnos 6y ago
  There isn't, which is why the pilot would have made it difficult or impossible to prove that's what happened. Without a determination of wrongdoing, his family would be in the clear, and would get any life insurance or pension payouts.
- fighterpilot 6y ago
  I'm talking about other people's perceptions of him. If he thought he could make it look like an accident, it looks "better" (to some people) to die in a freak plane crash than it does to kill themselves (which looks "weak"). The insurance money is probably a better explanation but I think the above psychology would apply to quite a few people who wouldn't want to saddle their family with the perceived embarrassment of committing suicide.