7 ms·

The culture here is getting bad. We have an "inclusion council" that hands out these diktats. The word ban list (not blacklist!) is approaching 100 words includ

The culture here is getting bad. We have an "inclusion council" that hands out these diktats. The word ban list (not blacklist!) is approaching 100 words including husband, housekeeping, normal, hacker and meritocracy. Worse part is we're a security company edit: "here" is okta, not basecamp

prepend 5y ago
Why hacker?
- thrownaway564 5y ago
  their explanation: it's "gendered and not inclusive"
  - arp242 5y ago
    And what's wrong with husband? Or housekeeping? How am I supposed to talk about my husband doing the housekeeping?
    - sithlord 5y ago
      you say "My Man Spouse is doing the domestic science"
      - steve_taylor 5y ago
        Don’t assume their spouse’s gender. /s
    - _-david-_ 5y ago
      Not sure about housekeeping but husband is gendered so I assume that is the "problem".
  - bryik 5y ago
    "hacker" isn't gendered. > 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html
  - prepend 5y ago
    That seems like they don’t understand the word. I can’t think of many more communities more inclusive than hackers. It’s certainly not gendered either. Are all gendered words banned?
    - mc32 5y ago
      Oh boy! No having cash cows or taking bullshit, or taking a gander, or goosing the numbers, etc., etc. What the hell happened to us?!
    - thrownaway564 5y ago
      no only words they imagine are non-inclusive. And since they don't know anything - all they have are imaginations
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    My daughter will be a hacker if she wants to follow in her old mans footsteps. Please don't take that away from her.
    - edoceo 5y ago
      mines only 6, shes defeated some child locks and found a "cheat" in one of her kid games on the iPad and presses every button on every machine she sees. Hack the planet kiddo!!
      - thrownaway564 5y ago
        Good! we'll need her in a few years once these kids' anxiety drives them out of the wokeforce
- simondotau 5y ago
  If Paul Graham doesn't rename this site "Hackex News" tomorrow, the woke brigade must cancel it immediately!
  - prepend 5y ago
    It’s tomorrow and not renamed. Surely, his silence on this issue means that he endorses the patriarchal dominance of hackers.
novalis78 5y ago
Come to us. First of all it’s Florida and second of all you can say and think what you like. In fact unique points of view are deeply appreciated and widely supported - and engaging contrarian intellectual conversations most welcome.
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
> husband Yup. Pro tip: If you're at a SV-influenced company and you find yourself talking about your personal life, don't say "husband," "wife," "boyfriend," or "girlfriend;" say "partner." That signals that you're an Ally rather than an Enemy. You'll notice other weird speech patterns too. Pay attention to them; they're meaningful.
- thrownaway564 5y ago
  Truth. from the "guidance" page: "More inclusive: Spouses/partners <> Less inclusive: Wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends"
  - evrydayhustling 5y ago
    Curious about the context here - is the guidance page suggesting how to refer to your own relationships, or when referring to an abstract group of relationships?
  - t0mbstone 5y ago
    But isn't your restriction of my language and how I refer to the people I love pretty much the opposite of "inclusion"? What if my wife would prefer if I referred to her as my "wife" instead of as a generic, faceless "partner"? By insisting that I refer to her as a genderless "partner", you are failing to respect her chosen pronoun.
    - joshuamorton 5y ago
      This is almost certainly for product or marketing materials, and not for you talking about your personal relationships. That is Okta should not talk about building a security tool for you and your wife to use, but instead for you and your partner to use. Because I have no clue who your partner is (or really if you have one) so I shouldn't assume until I have that information. Note that the words in the example are all plural, presumably referring to multiple other peoples' partners.
      - 5y ago
gedy 5y ago
"Husband" is banned? That's mental - I'd consider that a hostile work environment.
JADev62096 5y ago
It's bad where I work too. I'd call myself anti-woke. I just keep to myself. The sad thing is that I feel completely demoralized by it all. Like no one is on my side and I can't express myself at all anymore. I can't understand the people who say quit, because for every Basecamp or Coinbase there are 10,000 other companies who haven't banned it where it's taking over.
SquibblesRedux 5y ago
When anyone tries to prescribe language, it's time to look for the exit. For anyone who has not read the book Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984)[1], or seen the movie, I strongly recommend reading or watching. George Orwell understood the power of language when he wrote about Newspeak[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak
SvenMarquardt 5y ago
https://basecamp.com/about/jobs https://basecamp.com/about/jobs
foobiekr 5y ago
The most crazy about this stuff in the stirring-stuff-up sense person that I know went to okta specifically because they sensed it would be a good place to engage in this behavior.
ubercore 5y ago
Anyone work at Okta that can confirm this?
anon7725 5y ago
What’s wrong with husband?
listless 5y ago
Do we have any examples of this D&I stuff working? All I hear about are campuses and companies literally imploding. I never hear any places that were bad, and then got better. Is there any data at all to suggest that these ideas work and result in a better world?
thr0waway99x99 5y ago
Got a good chuckle reading the Twitter Bio of Okta's founder & CEO: "Co-founder + CEO of @okta, proud husband + father, addicted to exercise." Similar verbiage on their company site as well haha
paulddraper 5y ago
> husband, housekeeping, normal, hacker and meritocracy wtf

prepend 5y ago

Why hacker?

thrownaway564 5y ago
their explanation: it's "gendered and not inclusive"
- arp242 5y ago
  And what's wrong with husband? Or housekeeping? How am I supposed to talk about my husband doing the housekeeping?
  - sithlord 5y ago
    you say "My Man Spouse is doing the domestic science"
    - steve_taylor 5y ago
      Don’t assume their spouse’s gender. /s
  - _-david-_ 5y ago
    Not sure about housekeeping but husband is gendered so I assume that is the "problem".
- bryik 5y ago
  "hacker" isn't gendered. > 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html
- prepend 5y ago
  That seems like they don’t understand the word. I can’t think of many more communities more inclusive than hackers. It’s certainly not gendered either. Are all gendered words banned?
  - mc32 5y ago
    Oh boy! No having cash cows or taking bullshit, or taking a gander, or goosing the numbers, etc., etc. What the hell happened to us?!
  - thrownaway564 5y ago
    no only words they imagine are non-inclusive. And since they don't know anything - all they have are imaginations
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- willcipriano 5y ago
  My daughter will be a hacker if she wants to follow in her old mans footsteps. Please don't take that away from her.
  - edoceo 5y ago
    mines only 6, shes defeated some child locks and found a "cheat" in one of her kid games on the iPad and presses every button on every machine she sees. Hack the planet kiddo!!
    - thrownaway564 5y ago
      Good! we'll need her in a few years once these kids' anxiety drives them out of the wokeforce
simondotau 5y ago
If Paul Graham doesn't rename this site "Hackex News" tomorrow, the woke brigade must cancel it immediately!
- prepend 5y ago
  It’s tomorrow and not renamed. Surely, his silence on this issue means that he endorses the patriarchal dominance of hackers.

novalis78 5y ago

Come to us. First of all it’s Florida and second of all you can say and think what you like. In fact unique points of view are deeply appreciated and widely supported - and engaging contrarian intellectual conversations most welcome.

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago

> husband Yup. Pro tip: If you're at a SV-influenced company and you find yourself talking about your personal life, don't say "husband," "wife," "boyfriend," or "girlfriend;" say "partner." That signals that you're an Ally rather than an Enemy. You'll notice other weird speech patterns too. Pay attention to them; they're meaningful.

thrownaway564 5y ago
Truth. from the "guidance" page: "More inclusive: Spouses/partners <> Less inclusive: Wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends"
- evrydayhustling 5y ago
  Curious about the context here - is the guidance page suggesting how to refer to your own relationships, or when referring to an abstract group of relationships?
- t0mbstone 5y ago
  But isn't your restriction of my language and how I refer to the people I love pretty much the opposite of "inclusion"? What if my wife would prefer if I referred to her as my "wife" instead of as a generic, faceless "partner"? By insisting that I refer to her as a genderless "partner", you are failing to respect her chosen pronoun.
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    This is almost certainly for product or marketing materials, and not for you talking about your personal relationships. That is Okta should not talk about building a security tool for you and your wife to use, but instead for you and your partner to use. Because I have no clue who your partner is (or really if you have one) so I shouldn't assume until I have that information. Note that the words in the example are all plural, presumably referring to multiple other peoples' partners.
    - 5y ago

gedy 5y ago

"Husband" is banned? That's mental - I'd consider that a hostile work environment.

JADev62096 5y ago

It's bad where I work too. I'd call myself anti-woke. I just keep to myself. The sad thing is that I feel completely demoralized by it all. Like no one is on my side and I can't express myself at all anymore. I can't understand the people who say quit, because for every Basecamp or Coinbase there are 10,000 other companies who haven't banned it where it's taking over.

SquibblesRedux 5y ago

When anyone tries to prescribe language, it's time to look for the exit. For anyone who has not read the book Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984)[1], or seen the movie, I strongly recommend reading or watching. George Orwell understood the power of language when he wrote about Newspeak[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

SvenMarquardt 5y ago

https://basecamp.com/about/jobs https://basecamp.com/about/jobs

foobiekr 5y ago

The most crazy about this stuff in the stirring-stuff-up sense person that I know went to okta specifically because they sensed it would be a good place to engage in this behavior.

ubercore 5y ago

Anyone work at Okta that can confirm this?

anon7725 5y ago

What’s wrong with husband?

listless 5y ago

Do we have any examples of this D&I stuff working? All I hear about are campuses and companies literally imploding. I never hear any places that were bad, and then got better. Is there any data at all to suggest that these ideas work and result in a better world?

thr0waway99x99 5y ago

Got a good chuckle reading the Twitter Bio of Okta's founder & CEO: "Co-founder + CEO of @okta, proud husband + father, addicted to exercise." Similar verbiage on their company site as well haha

paulddraper 5y ago

> husband, housekeeping, normal, hacker and meritocracy wtf