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Well, he was saying: > but the compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. And my proficiency is good enough work related and when I me

Well, he was saying: > but the compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. And my proficiency is good enough work related and when I meet people. With no issues. What more would i need?

cinntaile 6y ago
That's what I wrote. The original comment received a question "Do you speak both languages natively?". While not aimed at me, I addressed it for the general case. People aren't brought up with both languages and will not have a native understanding of both. 6 years of at most 3 to 5 hours a week of French in high school don't get you to native level. I don't doubt at all that it's sufficient for your needs, but the bar for native is much higher than communicating without issues when dealing with work or meeting people. Even if you were at native level, it still wouldn't mean that this is the general case. I hope the original poster replies as well, it would be interesting to know if he knows the history behind his last name.
- NicoJuicy 6y ago
  I just said that i don't have any issues while working or meeting people. If that's the bar, then i reached it. No?
  - cinntaile 6y ago
    Let me try and rephrase it. Is your command of French as good as your command of Dutch? If yes then you have reached the native level bar, if not then you haven't.
    - NicoJuicy 6y ago
      Let me rephrase it. Being native doesn't matter. Plenty of people here learned English by classes, tv and online while not being a native English speaker and you wouldn't even notice it ( eg. me) Some are noticable, like people from the netherlands have a certain accent while speaking and you still understand them perfectly. Here's my point again: A native speaker has no single advantage over a non-native speaker, if they are at a certain level.
      - cinntaile 6y ago
        You're moving the goal posts, that was not the question.
        NicoJuicy 6y ago
        Just replace English by French in my example, it's the exact same thing but applied to here. > compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. It gets you good enough to explain yourself and speaking. You don't need native proficiency. What you need is to practise it afterwards, if multiple years go by. Even native dutch speakers that went abroad don't speak dutch anymore well by lack of repetition over ( a lot of) years. PS. My original reply was not on a question. But on the statement quoted above.

cinntaile 6y ago

That's what I wrote. The original comment received a question "Do you speak both languages natively?". While not aimed at me, I addressed it for the general case. People aren't brought up with both languages and will not have a native understanding of both. 6 years of at most 3 to 5 hours a week of French in high school don't get you to native level. I don't doubt at all that it's sufficient for your needs, but the bar for native is much higher than communicating without issues when dealing with work or meeting people. Even if you were at native level, it still wouldn't mean that this is the general case. I hope the original poster replies as well, it would be interesting to know if he knows the history behind his last name.

NicoJuicy 6y ago
I just said that i don't have any issues while working or meeting people. If that's the bar, then i reached it. No?
- cinntaile 6y ago
  Let me try and rephrase it. Is your command of French as good as your command of Dutch? If yes then you have reached the native level bar, if not then you haven't.
  - NicoJuicy 6y ago
    Let me rephrase it. Being native doesn't matter. Plenty of people here learned English by classes, tv and online while not being a native English speaker and you wouldn't even notice it ( eg. me) Some are noticable, like people from the netherlands have a certain accent while speaking and you still understand them perfectly. Here's my point again: A native speaker has no single advantage over a non-native speaker, if they are at a certain level.
    - cinntaile 6y ago
      You're moving the goal posts, that was not the question.
      - NicoJuicy 6y ago
        Just replace English by French in my example, it's the exact same thing but applied to here. > compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. It gets you good enough to explain yourself and speaking. You don't need native proficiency. What you need is to practise it afterwards, if multiple years go by. Even native dutch speakers that went abroad don't speak dutch anymore well by lack of repetition over ( a lot of) years. PS. My original reply was not on a question. But on the statement quoted above.