4 ms·

Literally the first google result of "women identifying as feminst" https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/american-women-and-feminism https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/american

Literally the first google result of "women identifying as feminst" https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/american-women-and-feminism https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/american-women-and-feminism And plenty more for the willing student; however an ideology that considers "men are on average taller and stronger than women" to be a controversial statement might understandably place some difficulty on those in need of finding these things. And funnily enough the definition of a group has nothing to do with how it behaves; or are you suddenly going to proudly identify as a mens rights activist? I suppose its just as well that naming North Korea a democratic peoples republic magically fixed the place overnight as well.

Kaze404 5y ago
> an ideology that considers "men are on average taller and stronger than women" to be a controversial statement Citation needed
- textgel 5y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5nu_INVli0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5nu_INVli0
  - Kaze404 5y ago
    You can find footage of people defending literally any controversial take you might have. Doesn't mean there are enough subscribers to consider their position.
    - textgel 5y ago
      Never happened > Okay it happened but not that big a deal > etc etc. These conversations always take such a predictable path.
      - Apocryphon 5y ago
        Highlighting one extreme statement in a huge ideological umbrella framework does not indict the entire ideology, as your original sentence claimed. Is that controversial statement a common one in that ideology? An official one? Do many groups from that ideology subscribe to it? You keep using the phrase "feminism", a memeplex that's as massive and diverse as any social movement, political ideology, or religion. But it's easy to oversimplify and be reductive towards such a memeplex, which includes members as diverse as Susan B. Anthony and Gloria Steinem, Zoe Quinn and Ariel Levy, Andrew Dworkin and Malala Yousafzai. You have to understand when dealing with a hugely variegated ideology it's unhelpful to speak in absolutes.
        textgel 5y ago
        No but the groups behaviour however does; behaviour illustrated in just one example I have given. And I never claimed one example was what it took to make the situation, I stated the situation and gave an example when pressed for evidence. The "memeplex" offers no such nuance to any of those that they oppose; and for all the claimed diversity within the movement the resultant behaviour remains the same.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        > The "memeplex" offers no such nuance to any of those that they oppose; and for all the claimed diversity within the movement the resultant behaviour remains the same. On the contrary, memeplex indicates quantity, size. A massive ideology with a thousand schools of thought inside. J.K. Rowling and Charlotte Clymer both identify as feminists. So do both Naomi Wu and Sarah Jeong. Such an umbrella term of ideologies contains myriads of sub-ideologies, many of them often in direct competition and contradiction with each other. To judge such an umbrella based on a single facet is to equate all of Islam to Salafi jihadism, or all of Christianity to Joel Osteen. It would seem that I am not the one operating without nuance, in this discussion. > behaviour illustrated in just one example I have given. A single statement from a single video? Perhaps that's the measure by how you judge all ideologies, but most do not subscribe to that heuristic. > I stated the situation and gave an example when pressed for evidence. And thus it is up to you to further prove that such evidence is indicative of the ideology, broadly.
krastanov 5y ago
Could you spell out how the link you shared says anything about "year on year decrease" or anything about the movement being viewed as "despicable". Especially in the context of your very reference saying that the results depend significantly on how the question is phrased?
- textgel 5y ago
  Ask yourself if you or other people would be more comfortable identifying as feminists publicly now as opposed to 5/10 years ago; that'll give you answer 1. As for answer 2, I've shown what basic searches can come up with. "why im not a feminst" might give you what you're looking for.
  - michaelpb 5y ago
    Not OP, but Answer 1: Yes, it's anecdotal but you definitely see the trend. Answer 2: So I did the Google search as you requested, and read about the book [1]. I hadn't heard of it but it looks interesting, thanks for recommending. From what I can tell, it's central claim is that feminism has an image problem due to it being co-opted by the US right-wing which she calls "choice feminism", and the remedy is a need to return to a leftist concept of what she calls "radical feminism". Is that what you're saying? [1] https://www.amazon.com/Why-Am-Not-Feminist-Manifesto/dp/1612196012 https://www.amazon.com/Why-Am-Not-Feminist-Manifesto/dp/1612...
    - textgel 5y ago
      A full on reading into one particular book is probably going above and beyond (though I cant immediately see anything about right wing co-option on a skim read of that particular one; the general criticism at the moment seems to centre on the radical lefts takeover). The search for me at least brings a number of articles which highlight common criticisms of the movement such as rampant sexism, advocacy for abolition of basic rights (free speech, right to fair trial etc), general hypocrisy and bad faith action (see the Cathy Newman vs Jordan Peterson interview for a great example of this)

Kaze404 5y ago

> an ideology that considers "men are on average taller and stronger than women" to be a controversial statement Citation needed

textgel 5y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5nu_INVli0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5nu_INVli0
- Kaze404 5y ago
  You can find footage of people defending literally any controversial take you might have. Doesn't mean there are enough subscribers to consider their position.
  - textgel 5y ago
    Never happened > Okay it happened but not that big a deal > etc etc. These conversations always take such a predictable path.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      Highlighting one extreme statement in a huge ideological umbrella framework does not indict the entire ideology, as your original sentence claimed. Is that controversial statement a common one in that ideology? An official one? Do many groups from that ideology subscribe to it? You keep using the phrase "feminism", a memeplex that's as massive and diverse as any social movement, political ideology, or religion. But it's easy to oversimplify and be reductive towards such a memeplex, which includes members as diverse as Susan B. Anthony and Gloria Steinem, Zoe Quinn and Ariel Levy, Andrew Dworkin and Malala Yousafzai. You have to understand when dealing with a hugely variegated ideology it's unhelpful to speak in absolutes.
      - textgel 5y ago
        No but the groups behaviour however does; behaviour illustrated in just one example I have given. And I never claimed one example was what it took to make the situation, I stated the situation and gave an example when pressed for evidence. The "memeplex" offers no such nuance to any of those that they oppose; and for all the claimed diversity within the movement the resultant behaviour remains the same.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        > The "memeplex" offers no such nuance to any of those that they oppose; and for all the claimed diversity within the movement the resultant behaviour remains the same. On the contrary, memeplex indicates quantity, size. A massive ideology with a thousand schools of thought inside. J.K. Rowling and Charlotte Clymer both identify as feminists. So do both Naomi Wu and Sarah Jeong. Such an umbrella term of ideologies contains myriads of sub-ideologies, many of them often in direct competition and contradiction with each other. To judge such an umbrella based on a single facet is to equate all of Islam to Salafi jihadism, or all of Christianity to Joel Osteen. It would seem that I am not the one operating without nuance, in this discussion. > behaviour illustrated in just one example I have given. A single statement from a single video? Perhaps that's the measure by how you judge all ideologies, but most do not subscribe to that heuristic. > I stated the situation and gave an example when pressed for evidence. And thus it is up to you to further prove that such evidence is indicative of the ideology, broadly.

krastanov 5y ago

Could you spell out how the link you shared says anything about "year on year decrease" or anything about the movement being viewed as "despicable". Especially in the context of your very reference saying that the results depend significantly on how the question is phrased?

textgel 5y ago
Ask yourself if you or other people would be more comfortable identifying as feminists publicly now as opposed to 5/10 years ago; that'll give you answer 1. As for answer 2, I've shown what basic searches can come up with. "why im not a feminst" might give you what you're looking for.
- michaelpb 5y ago
  Not OP, but Answer 1: Yes, it's anecdotal but you definitely see the trend. Answer 2: So I did the Google search as you requested, and read about the book [1]. I hadn't heard of it but it looks interesting, thanks for recommending. From what I can tell, it's central claim is that feminism has an image problem due to it being co-opted by the US right-wing which she calls "choice feminism", and the remedy is a need to return to a leftist concept of what she calls "radical feminism". Is that what you're saying? [1] https://www.amazon.com/Why-Am-Not-Feminist-Manifesto/dp/1612196012 https://www.amazon.com/Why-Am-Not-Feminist-Manifesto/dp/1612...
  - textgel 5y ago
    A full on reading into one particular book is probably going above and beyond (though I cant immediately see anything about right wing co-option on a skim read of that particular one; the general criticism at the moment seems to centre on the radical lefts takeover). The search for me at least brings a number of articles which highlight common criticisms of the movement such as rampant sexism, advocacy for abolition of basic rights (free speech, right to fair trial etc), general hypocrisy and bad faith action (see the Cathy Newman vs Jordan Peterson interview for a great example of this)