4 ms·

You can't really buy a "dumb" gas car anymore either. I'm holding onto my 2011 Nissan Versa to the bitter end.

by kgwxd 6y ago

mywittyname 6y ago
Your Versa isn't exactly dumb either. It's younger than the iPhone.
- jmnicolas 6y ago
  You mean older?
  - ahlatimer 6y ago
    A 2011 Versa is younger than the iPhone which launched in 2007.
- tga 6y ago
  You can still buy a brand new Toyota Land Cruiser J70 in 2021. Even though it will be newer than the iPhone 12, it won't spy on you -- because it was designed in 1984. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70)
  - Zhenya 6y ago
    Mechanical design of original platform does NOT limit the OEMs ability to install telecommunications modules and other upgraded electronic.
  - 4ad 6y ago
    Unfortunately, only in Australia and parts of Africa and a few other select markets. I've been trying to buy a new J70, but AFAICT you can't buy a new one in the EU or US, and it's practically impossible to import one either. I'd be very happy to be corrected.
    - rayrey 6y ago
      The 25 year rule sucks
saruken 6y ago
Same here with my '93 Saab. I replaced the smart (for its time) HVAC control system with an Arduino running software I wrote, but otherwise it's bone stock. I'd love an electric too, but the way I figure it, continuing to use a fairly efficient vehicle that already exists is probably better for the environment than buying something new anyway. It takes a lot of resources and material to build a car.
- tashoecraft 6y ago
  The problem with older cars, is that safety standards have improved dramatically in that time. So while you might have a "dumb" car that isn't spying on you, in the event of an crash, you are going to be much more likely to be injured. If I had to weigh being spied on with being injured, I'd guess the odds of being injured actually impacting my life negatively as greatly higher. I do miss my old Saab though...
  - userbinator 6y ago
    "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither," as the saying goes, and these recent years that saying has gotten quite a bit more meaningful, I think.
    - InitialLastName 6y ago
      From now on, you only get to pull that quote out if you make literally no compromises to your freedom for the sake of security. Lock your car doors, thus making yourself less free to open them in favor of a bit of security? Run a firewall on your server, reducing your freedom to connect frictionlessly however you like in favor of that also being true of others?
    - thatcat 6y ago
      Car wrecks are a safety concern not security.
    - flukus 6y ago
      That phrase originally had the opposite meaning: https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou... > It is a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security.
throwawayboise 6y ago
You can buy dumb cars, they just won't be new cars.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  I don't expect that to be financially viable too long into the future. Once a significant enough portion of the general public's fleet turns over you can expect to see onerous requirements applied to older vehicles to get people at the margins to buy newer stuff (e.g. inspection programs that drive up the cost of ownership under the guise of safety, some states already have these). Insurance lobby wants people in new cars. The Karens don't like seeing old junk. The upper middle class wants everyone driving EVs for the planet's sake. The state wants to be able to track everything. None of these parties care that most of the people affected will have credit scores in the 400s and be forced to do business with predatory "buy here pay here" lots.

You can't really buy a "dumb" gas car anymore either. I'm holding onto my 2011 Nissan Versa to the bitter end.

by kgwxd 6y ago

You can't really buy a "dumb" gas car anymore either. I'm holding onto my 2011 Nissan Versa to the bitter end.

mywittyname 6y ago

Your Versa isn't exactly dumb either. It's younger than the iPhone.

jmnicolas 6y ago
You mean older?
- ahlatimer 6y ago
  A 2011 Versa is younger than the iPhone which launched in 2007.
tga 6y ago
You can still buy a brand new Toyota Land Cruiser J70 in 2021. Even though it will be newer than the iPhone 12, it won't spy on you -- because it was designed in 1984. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70)
- Zhenya 6y ago
  Mechanical design of original platform does NOT limit the OEMs ability to install telecommunications modules and other upgraded electronic.
- 4ad 6y ago
  Unfortunately, only in Australia and parts of Africa and a few other select markets. I've been trying to buy a new J70, but AFAICT you can't buy a new one in the EU or US, and it's practically impossible to import one either. I'd be very happy to be corrected.
  - rayrey 6y ago
    The 25 year rule sucks

saruken 6y ago

Same here with my '93 Saab. I replaced the smart (for its time) HVAC control system with an Arduino running software I wrote, but otherwise it's bone stock. I'd love an electric too, but the way I figure it, continuing to use a fairly efficient vehicle that already exists is probably better for the environment than buying something new anyway. It takes a lot of resources and material to build a car.

tashoecraft 6y ago
The problem with older cars, is that safety standards have improved dramatically in that time. So while you might have a "dumb" car that isn't spying on you, in the event of an crash, you are going to be much more likely to be injured. If I had to weigh being spied on with being injured, I'd guess the odds of being injured actually impacting my life negatively as greatly higher. I do miss my old Saab though...
- userbinator 6y ago
  "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither," as the saying goes, and these recent years that saying has gotten quite a bit more meaningful, I think.
  - InitialLastName 6y ago
    From now on, you only get to pull that quote out if you make literally no compromises to your freedom for the sake of security. Lock your car doors, thus making yourself less free to open them in favor of a bit of security? Run a firewall on your server, reducing your freedom to connect frictionlessly however you like in favor of that also being true of others?
  - thatcat 6y ago
    Car wrecks are a safety concern not security.
  - flukus 6y ago
    That phrase originally had the opposite meaning: https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou... > It is a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security.

throwawayboise 6y ago

You can buy dumb cars, they just won't be new cars.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
I don't expect that to be financially viable too long into the future. Once a significant enough portion of the general public's fleet turns over you can expect to see onerous requirements applied to older vehicles to get people at the margins to buy newer stuff (e.g. inspection programs that drive up the cost of ownership under the guise of safety, some states already have these). Insurance lobby wants people in new cars. The Karens don't like seeing old junk. The upper middle class wants everyone driving EVs for the planet's sake. The state wants to be able to track everything. None of these parties care that most of the people affected will have credit scores in the 400s and be forced to do business with predatory "buy here pay here" lots.