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I would argue that a high level of devotion is not the same thing as codependency. I'm not sure you and OP are actually disagreeing with each other here. It's

by NickM 5y ago

I would argue that a high level of devotion is not the same thing as codependency. I'm not sure you and OP are actually disagreeing with each other here. It's entirely possible to have an enduring, meaningful, devoted, monogamous relationship that brings a great deal of happiness to both partners without that relationship being a requirement for the people involved to experience any amount of happiness or fulfillment in their lives.

thepasswordis 5y ago
Yeah man I don't think I would classify a committed relationship where partners end up missing their partner when they're gone as "codependent". And honestly this whole trend of laymen trying to psychoanalyze people with whatever toxic psychobabble their read on twitter is getting out of hand. Codependence is when two people have some unhealthy trait that is reinforced by the other person's unhealthy trait. From wikipedia: >Codependency is a concept that attempts to characterize imbalanced relationships where one person enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement. That is not the same as "I get sad when my wife is gone because she is my life partner".
- void_mint 5y ago
  Right, but this is the statement that someone pointed out as a red flag, that you disagreed with > I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. Which is basically the exact definition of codependence.
  - thepasswordis 5y ago
    >Which is basically the exact definition of codependence. Well okay I suppose that the people I'm talking about, in their 50+ year relationships would describe their love for their partner as a type of addiction, but what you might be missing there is: that is a joke, and they are being cute. If we're redefining romantic devotion as an "addiction" then I think we have officially lost the plot.
    - jamespo 5y ago
      Hmm it seems like you're reframing things to shore up your argument
    - void_mint 5y ago
      You're kind of just arguing past the people in this thread ("these relationships in my life are healthy and not codependent, so codependence is not a problem in relationships"). I would also argue that your takes offer the same "armchair psychoanalysis" you're arguing against, fwiw. > If we're redefining romantic devotion as an "addiction" then I think we have officially lost the plot. No one is redefining anything. This term is poorly defined. Codependence is not "romantic devotion". "Romantic devotion" should not be codependence.
      - thepasswordis 5y ago
        When you use the word "codependent", what do you mean?
        wizzwizz4 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency#Individual_dynamics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency#Individual_dynami... > A codependent is someone who cannot function on their own and whose thinking and behavior is instead organized around another person, process, or substance.
        lovegoblin 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency#Romantic_relationship_dynamics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency#Romantic_relation... > Commonly observable characteristics of codependency are: > intense and unstable interpersonal relationships > *inability to tolerate being alone, accompanied by frantic efforts to avoid being alone* > ...
  - mlyle 5y ago
    Look-- my life would be crap without my wife. She's awesome and I am much happier in partnered life. I'd survive and have some enjoyment alone, but most of us end up partnered up because it's a serious buff to life fulfillment. That doesn't make us codependent, to know that I'd spend lots of time miserable if unpartnered and without my wife in particular.
    - gsk22 5y ago
      There's a big difference between "I am happier with a partner" and "I am miserable without a partner".
      - void_mint 5y ago
        I don't think it's generally worthwhile to argue with people whose arguments center around "I love my wife and you cannot tell me that's not okay." Lots of these responses read as though people are feeling attacked, which isn't a great baseline to start any reasonable conversation.
        mlyle 5y ago
        In fairness, the tone of the earlier comments has been edited-- the original tone of "you're all codependent" and the statement that we're all just jealous that we can't play video games whenever we want maybe reasonably made people feel attacked.
        void_mint 5y ago
        I'm not suggesting that the person feeling attacked isn't right to feel that way (I didn't see the comment you're referring to, but this topic seems to be kind of heated in nature regardless). Mostly just, attempting to reason with someone that's feeling attacked (much less, someone that's feeling attacked about something as emotional as loving their wife) is an unwinnable task. I wish this conversation started better, because I actually think it's very important (and I generally think/agree that lots of relationships are unhealthy and it contributes to a lot of more negative societal issues), but I think discussing those topics with those that think you're trying to invalidate their relationship serves no one.
- Nursie 5y ago
  > Yeah man I don't think I would classify a committed relationship where partners end up missing their partner when they're gone as "codependent". > I spent every day without her more or less miserable This is a bit more than "missing" them.
  - ratww 5y ago
    This phrase is kinda ambiguous. I still don't understand if by that sentence the article author means he was miserable before, or if this means he misses her after just one day of her being away. "Spent" is in the past, so I assumed it's the former. I have the impression that people are talking about different things in some replies.
    - La1n 5y ago
      But; >It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. Is less ambiguous. I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who is that dependent on me to be happy.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      > I still don't understand if by that sentence the article author means he was miserable before, or if this means he misses her after just one day of her being away. Honestly to me it's not important, if it's either of those things, if it's misery every day without someone that's pretty extreme. IMHO, YMMV etc. Glad he's happy, but that's a lot to put on a partner.
- mbesto 5y ago
  > Go talk to some elderly people: the ones who have been in marriages that have lasted the entire lives are generally completely devoted to one another, and as an extension their families. Unsurprisingly, those families seem to be generally full of happy, healthy people in their own happy, stable relationships. > And honestly this whole trend of laymen trying to psychoanalyze people with whatever toxic psychobabble their read on twitter is getting out of hand. No offense, but that's exactly what you just did. I personally know of families with 30+ years of marriage who appear "full of happy health people" on the outside but independently disclose their lifelong frustration. Maybe let's all stay out of psychoanalyzing then?
- vidarh 5y ago
  You're interpreting this very different to how I read it. Missing someone is very different from being miserable when apart because you don't have anything else to give your life meaning. I'm not miserable when I miss someone. I'd never describe it as that way, because if I'm apart from someone, while that sucks, at the same time it means I have someone. Longing is not misery to me at least.

by NickM 5y ago

thepasswordis 5y ago

Yeah man I don't think I would classify a committed relationship where partners end up missing their partner when they're gone as "codependent". And honestly this whole trend of laymen trying to psychoanalyze people with whatever toxic psychobabble their read on twitter is getting out of hand. Codependence is when two people have some unhealthy trait that is reinforced by the other person's unhealthy trait. From wikipedia: >Codependency is a concept that attempts to characterize imbalanced relationships where one person enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement. That is not the same as "I get sad when my wife is gone because she is my life partner".

void_mint 5y ago
Right, but this is the statement that someone pointed out as a red flag, that you disagreed with > I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. Which is basically the exact definition of codependence.
- thepasswordis 5y ago
  >Which is basically the exact definition of codependence. Well okay I suppose that the people I'm talking about, in their 50+ year relationships would describe their love for their partner as a type of addiction, but what you might be missing there is: that is a joke, and they are being cute. If we're redefining romantic devotion as an "addiction" then I think we have officially lost the plot.
  - jamespo 5y ago
    Hmm it seems like you're reframing things to shore up your argument
  - void_mint 5y ago
    You're kind of just arguing past the people in this thread ("these relationships in my life are healthy and not codependent, so codependence is not a problem in relationships"). I would also argue that your takes offer the same "armchair psychoanalysis" you're arguing against, fwiw. > If we're redefining romantic devotion as an "addiction" then I think we have officially lost the plot. No one is redefining anything. This term is poorly defined. Codependence is not "romantic devotion". "Romantic devotion" should not be codependence.
    - thepasswordis 5y ago
      When you use the word "codependent", what do you mean?
      - wizzwizz4 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency#Individual_dynamics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency#Individual_dynami... > A codependent is someone who cannot function on their own and whose thinking and behavior is instead organized around another person, process, or substance.
      - lovegoblin 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency#Romantic_relationship_dynamics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency#Romantic_relation... > Commonly observable characteristics of codependency are: > intense and unstable interpersonal relationships > *inability to tolerate being alone, accompanied by frantic efforts to avoid being alone* > ...
- mlyle 5y ago
  Look-- my life would be crap without my wife. She's awesome and I am much happier in partnered life. I'd survive and have some enjoyment alone, but most of us end up partnered up because it's a serious buff to life fulfillment. That doesn't make us codependent, to know that I'd spend lots of time miserable if unpartnered and without my wife in particular.
  - gsk22 5y ago
    There's a big difference between "I am happier with a partner" and "I am miserable without a partner".
    - void_mint 5y ago
      I don't think it's generally worthwhile to argue with people whose arguments center around "I love my wife and you cannot tell me that's not okay." Lots of these responses read as though people are feeling attacked, which isn't a great baseline to start any reasonable conversation.
      - mlyle 5y ago
        In fairness, the tone of the earlier comments has been edited-- the original tone of "you're all codependent" and the statement that we're all just jealous that we can't play video games whenever we want maybe reasonably made people feel attacked.
        void_mint 5y ago
        I'm not suggesting that the person feeling attacked isn't right to feel that way (I didn't see the comment you're referring to, but this topic seems to be kind of heated in nature regardless). Mostly just, attempting to reason with someone that's feeling attacked (much less, someone that's feeling attacked about something as emotional as loving their wife) is an unwinnable task. I wish this conversation started better, because I actually think it's very important (and I generally think/agree that lots of relationships are unhealthy and it contributes to a lot of more negative societal issues), but I think discussing those topics with those that think you're trying to invalidate their relationship serves no one.
Nursie 5y ago
> Yeah man I don't think I would classify a committed relationship where partners end up missing their partner when they're gone as "codependent". > I spent every day without her more or less miserable This is a bit more than "missing" them.
- ratww 5y ago
  This phrase is kinda ambiguous. I still don't understand if by that sentence the article author means he was miserable before, or if this means he misses her after just one day of her being away. "Spent" is in the past, so I assumed it's the former. I have the impression that people are talking about different things in some replies.
  - La1n 5y ago
    But; >It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. Is less ambiguous. I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who is that dependent on me to be happy.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    > I still don't understand if by that sentence the article author means he was miserable before, or if this means he misses her after just one day of her being away. Honestly to me it's not important, if it's either of those things, if it's misery every day without someone that's pretty extreme. IMHO, YMMV etc. Glad he's happy, but that's a lot to put on a partner.
mbesto 5y ago
> Go talk to some elderly people: the ones who have been in marriages that have lasted the entire lives are generally completely devoted to one another, and as an extension their families. Unsurprisingly, those families seem to be generally full of happy, healthy people in their own happy, stable relationships. > And honestly this whole trend of laymen trying to psychoanalyze people with whatever toxic psychobabble their read on twitter is getting out of hand. No offense, but that's exactly what you just did. I personally know of families with 30+ years of marriage who appear "full of happy health people" on the outside but independently disclose their lifelong frustration. Maybe let's all stay out of psychoanalyzing then?
vidarh 5y ago
You're interpreting this very different to how I read it. Missing someone is very different from being miserable when apart because you don't have anything else to give your life meaning. I'm not miserable when I miss someone. I'd never describe it as that way, because if I'm apart from someone, while that sucks, at the same time it means I have someone. Longing is not misery to me at least.