4 ms·

There is a lot to unpack here, and it is difficult to know where to begin. I had a friend who was a pastor who lamented he didn't like that his yearly board ga

There is a lot to unpack here, and it is difficult to know where to begin. I had a friend who was a pastor who lamented he didn't like that his yearly board game get-together with his other [often pastor] friends often ended up discussing their dead bedrooms. I have no idea how these dynamics have come to be so common, even taking into account the usual ebbs and flows in relationships. I don't know if this problem occurs at higher rates in more religious couples. I suspect that this is the collateral damage of [obviously misguided] purity culture, but we see the same patterns outside of religious couples. Edit: I should clarify to say the only reason I'm writing this is that these problems have a big impact on people's lives, aren't easy to fix, and often buried from everyone around them.

74d-fe6-2c6 6y ago
> [obviously misguided] purity culture As far as I understand it celibacy of men devoted to religion or spiritual endeavours is not about "purity" but total focus. And I don't think that is misguided. It's just very resolute.
- mattgreenrocks 6y ago
  That was in reference to the evangelical version of those ideas, where the body was inherently sinful. > And I don't think that is misguided. It's just very resolute. Agree. Celibacy is difficult but can teach much.
  - 74d-fe6-2c6 6y ago
    It's not my cup of tea. But I don't like the general "celibacy is bad and turns men into criminal pedophiles" agenda.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    I don't think that the body being inherently sinful is actually a part of evangelical Christianity. I'm sure there will be some within the evangelical category that teach that, but I think the core evangelical position is this: Sex is for marriage. Outside of marriage, sex is sinful/evil. But within marriage, it is good and to be enjoyed. Now, you can still think of that as "misguided purity culture", but it's not "the body is inherently sinful".
iammisc 6y ago
Religious couples tend to have the most fulfilling sex lives. Conservative religious couples have the best: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7060099/Highly-religious-couples-better-sex-lives-secular-counterparts-survey-reveals.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7060099/Highly-reli... Myself, as a highly conservative married man, my findings confirm the daily mail article, esp. when I look at the sex lives of my married friends who were more libertine in their youth. EDIT: A few theories: 1. My wife is not on birth control, which means she ovulates, and thus has the normal cyclical female sex drive. Her desires during ovulation are way past mine, even if my average is higher than hers. I believe this is why modern men feel so undesirable -- most women are taking hormones that directly affect how attractive they perceive their men to be. 2. No points of comparison. I have no point of comparison with other women. At this point my sexual response, probably through repeated exposure, is finely tuned to my wife. I have fantasies, like any man, but the vividness of my lived experience far surpasses them in excitement. 3. No pornography. I'm not saying I've been perfect, but my religion believes that consuming pornography (same with masturbation) leads to hell, so it's not something I typically do. I have a high sex drive as a result, and instead of masturbating, we have sex instead. 4. No condoms. Similar to number 1. Sex without a condom is better. We tried it once (in violation of my religion) and it was awful. I wouldn't describe it as the same experience. I'm pretty sure there's something in each of our secretions that makes no condom sex better. I'm not a sex scientist, but this is my observation.
- thrower123 6y ago
  I would suspect that usage of antidepressants is lower in highly religious couples. The one-two combo of antidepressants and hormonal birth control absolutely destroy libido.
  - kingsuper20 6y ago
    Hah. That's an interesting point. It seems to me that people could stand to turn these issues into sub-issues. I can't see much similarity between undersexed 25 year olds (typically male) and 60 year old couples who are either constructed differently or have health issues. My main take-away is to heavily invest in sex robots and teledildonics.
at_a_remove 6y ago
I don't know a ton of married men but every last one of them has managed to let me know one way or another that their sex lives are essentially over. All of them. And it all seems to follow this cliche that people will scream at you does not exist.
- vb6sp6 6y ago
  Are these people explicitly telling you this? If a bunch of my married friends got together and started bitching about their sex lives, I might nod along in agreement even if my sex life isn't over.
  - at_a_remove 6y ago
    Solo, one-on-one conversations all. One friend, recently married, much younger than I. Never brought up sex once in all the time I knew him, just casually drops at a party while the two of us are alone in a hallway that the cliche was real. My longest friendship, married a woman who talked a good game, was very out and proud about her kinky background, and so on. Another dead bedroom, this usually mentioned during long car rides while we go out. She keeps saying that she'll try to do better but does nothing, meanwhile everything she has on the table is a crisis. And so on and so forth.
    - vb6sp6 6y ago
      That's interesting. i googled around a bit but couldn't find any stats or studies on % of dead bedrooms. Maybe the myth is more common that we think

74d-fe6-2c6 6y ago

> [obviously misguided] purity culture As far as I understand it celibacy of men devoted to religion or spiritual endeavours is not about "purity" but total focus. And I don't think that is misguided. It's just very resolute.

mattgreenrocks 6y ago
That was in reference to the evangelical version of those ideas, where the body was inherently sinful. > And I don't think that is misguided. It's just very resolute. Agree. Celibacy is difficult but can teach much.
- 74d-fe6-2c6 6y ago
  It's not my cup of tea. But I don't like the general "celibacy is bad and turns men into criminal pedophiles" agenda.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  I don't think that the body being inherently sinful is actually a part of evangelical Christianity. I'm sure there will be some within the evangelical category that teach that, but I think the core evangelical position is this: Sex is for marriage. Outside of marriage, sex is sinful/evil. But within marriage, it is good and to be enjoyed. Now, you can still think of that as "misguided purity culture", but it's not "the body is inherently sinful".

iammisc 6y ago

Religious couples tend to have the most fulfilling sex lives. Conservative religious couples have the best: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7060099/Highly-religious-couples-better-sex-lives-secular-counterparts-survey-reveals.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7060099/Highly-reli... Myself, as a highly conservative married man, my findings confirm the daily mail article, esp. when I look at the sex lives of my married friends who were more libertine in their youth. EDIT: A few theories: 1. My wife is not on birth control, which means she ovulates, and thus has the normal cyclical female sex drive. Her desires during ovulation are way past mine, even if my average is higher than hers. I believe this is why modern men feel so undesirable -- most women are taking hormones that directly affect how attractive they perceive their men to be. 2. No points of comparison. I have no point of comparison with other women. At this point my sexual response, probably through repeated exposure, is finely tuned to my wife. I have fantasies, like any man, but the vividness of my lived experience far surpasses them in excitement. 3. No pornography. I'm not saying I've been perfect, but my religion believes that consuming pornography (same with masturbation) leads to hell, so it's not something I typically do. I have a high sex drive as a result, and instead of masturbating, we have sex instead. 4. No condoms. Similar to number 1. Sex without a condom is better. We tried it once (in violation of my religion) and it was awful. I wouldn't describe it as the same experience. I'm pretty sure there's something in each of our secretions that makes no condom sex better. I'm not a sex scientist, but this is my observation.

thrower123 6y ago
I would suspect that usage of antidepressants is lower in highly religious couples. The one-two combo of antidepressants and hormonal birth control absolutely destroy libido.
- kingsuper20 6y ago
  Hah. That's an interesting point. It seems to me that people could stand to turn these issues into sub-issues. I can't see much similarity between undersexed 25 year olds (typically male) and 60 year old couples who are either constructed differently or have health issues. My main take-away is to heavily invest in sex robots and teledildonics.

at_a_remove 6y ago

I don't know a ton of married men but every last one of them has managed to let me know one way or another that their sex lives are essentially over. All of them. And it all seems to follow this cliche that people will scream at you does not exist.

vb6sp6 6y ago
Are these people explicitly telling you this? If a bunch of my married friends got together and started bitching about their sex lives, I might nod along in agreement even if my sex life isn't over.
- at_a_remove 6y ago
  Solo, one-on-one conversations all. One friend, recently married, much younger than I. Never brought up sex once in all the time I knew him, just casually drops at a party while the two of us are alone in a hallway that the cliche was real. My longest friendship, married a woman who talked a good game, was very out and proud about her kinky background, and so on. Another dead bedroom, this usually mentioned during long car rides while we go out. She keeps saying that she'll try to do better but does nothing, meanwhile everything she has on the table is a crisis. And so on and so forth.
  - vb6sp6 6y ago
    That's interesting. i googled around a bit but couldn't find any stats or studies on % of dead bedrooms. Maybe the myth is more common that we think