3 ms·

The number one problem reported (testing) is something without an easy fix IMO. Testing is almost as custom as the code you write. There is no app you can buy

The number one problem reported (testing) is something without an easy fix IMO. Testing is almost as custom as the code you write. There is no app you can buy or service you can use that will supplement writing tests or manual testing. Maybe firing the QA team "because DevOps" wasn't the right solution?

inopinatus 6y ago
Aye, anyone who did that missed the point, I think. There’s no more pivotal role in devops than QA, I’ve seen many takes on devops and the best outcome (so far) was when QA own the CI/CD pipeline and their job isn’t performing tests, but writing automated ones, and directly pairing with developers, BAs, and SREs. This tends to make QA a gateway job to dev, SRE, or product management. In some organisations the QA function is perceived as a dogsbody role, and the reframing helps flatten the pecking order. In the long run there’s a virtuous cycle to accessing the talent pool this way.
- boleary-gl 6y ago
  I completely agree - it's why I love the title "Software Engineer in Test". QA should be a critical engineering role that supplements the team - not a place that people see as a stepping stone for later roles. There should be the same career progression possible in your QA department as any other engineering department.
perlgeek 6y ago
Testing requires a mindset. It always takes longer to write tests than not -- at least in the short run. Some developers, at least, seem to get it now. Even if they don't write enough tests, they have some awareness that they should be writing tests. Ops? There might be exceptions, but most ops folks don't even think they should be writing tests. And yet, many ops folks do more automation than before, write more code or complex config. I agree there is no easy fix. Changing minds is always harder than finding a shiny tool.

3 ms·

The number one problem reported (testing) is something without an easy fix IMO. Testing is almost as custom as the code you write. There is no app you can buy

by candiddevmike 6y ago

inopinatus 6y ago
Aye, anyone who did that missed the point, I think. There’s no more pivotal role in devops than QA, I’ve seen many takes on devops and the best outcome (so far) was when QA own the CI/CD pipeline and their job isn’t performing tests, but writing automated ones, and directly pairing with developers, BAs, and SREs. This tends to make QA a gateway job to dev, SRE, or product management. In some organisations the QA function is perceived as a dogsbody role, and the reframing helps flatten the pecking order. In the long run there’s a virtuous cycle to accessing the talent pool this way.
- boleary-gl 6y ago
  I completely agree - it's why I love the title "Software Engineer in Test". QA should be a critical engineering role that supplements the team - not a place that people see as a stepping stone for later roles. There should be the same career progression possible in your QA department as any other engineering department.
perlgeek 6y ago
Testing requires a mindset. It always takes longer to write tests than not -- at least in the short run. Some developers, at least, seem to get it now. Even if they don't write enough tests, they have some awareness that they should be writing tests. Ops? There might be exceptions, but most ops folks don't even think they should be writing tests. And yet, many ops folks do more automation than before, write more code or complex config. I agree there is no easy fix. Changing minds is always harder than finding a shiny tool.