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> It has hints of "reverse racism" and tends to dismiss that racism is an issue...and if it is an issue, racism against white people is the actual and bigger is

> It has hints of "reverse racism" and tends to dismiss that racism is an issue...and if it is an issue, racism against white people is the actual and bigger issue. That's closer to the camp of "white supremacist" or at the very least, a common defense used by white supremacist. This is the problem with cultural Marxism / “wokeness”. It’s a sanctified, totalizing ideology that admits zero daylight between “100% agreement” and “you are a white supremacist/literal Nazi”. In that way it functions exactly like a “state religion”: in public, you’re either a true believer, act like one or are mute and don’t give away your position. Soon they will make you mouth the words or face denunciation. Perhaps we are already there in the vanguard of coastal tech companies. This whole thing is counter to the very spirit of liberalism.

tomlockwood 5y ago
I don't know, reading the quote you've included in this comment - it seems a lot less "totalizing" than you're saying, considering the quote itself uses the loose terms "closer to the camp of" or "a common defense used by". There's already nuance and wiggle room there, so, I'm not sure how you're immediately launching into a pretty sanctimonious and totalizing statement that "cultural Marxism" admits zero daylight between extremes. Could you help me understand why you feel "cultural Marxism" is so, totally, totalizing?
- moduspol 5y ago
  Not OP, but you'd have to have blinders on to not see the political left increasingly branding everyone they disagree with as evil / Nazis / white supremacists. That's what happened above, and you're rationalizing it here.
  - tomlockwood 5y ago
    If you think the political left increasingly branding "everyone" as evil / Nazis / white supremacists is bad - wait till you hear about people claiming the "political left" all brand people as evil / Nazis / white supremacists.
    - etchalon 5y ago
      I remember when the political right branded everyone as a communist.
- anon7725 5y ago
  > Could you help me understand why you feel "cultural Marxism" is so, totally, totalizing? It simply means that the ideology won’t stop until it has transformed all of culture. The progress thus far has been academia -> journalism -> tech companies. It’s coming for the rest of society. There is no area of life or society that this ideology does not claim to address. You missed “sanctified” - the ideology resists criticism. Do you not see that this is the way religion used to be?
  - tomlockwood 5y ago
    > It simply means that the ideology won’t stop until it has transformed all of culture. The progress thus far has been academia -> journalism -> tech companies. It’s coming for the rest of society. There is no area of life or society that this ideology does not claim to address. So let me get this straight: You're railing against an ideology that you claim has progressed through a large section of society, and you think it is bad, and you think, presumably, that society ought to not be like that, at least in these many areas. And your criticism of that ideology is that it claims to address many areas of society? > You missed “sanctified” - the ideology resists criticism. Do you not see that this is the way religion used to be? You missed the bit where I used the word "sanctimonious".
etchalon 5y ago
The commenter did none of those things. They simply pointed out that the defense is often used by actual white supremacists.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Rapzid 5y ago
  "I didn't do it". That's how you know they did it. The irony of this whole section of the thread in the context of racism...
at_a_remove 5y ago
And if someone sees you making an OK hand sign, that's a secret white supremacist gesture and you should be fired.
dools 5y ago
There is no such thing as "cultural marxism", it's a term manufactured by modern libertarians to distract people with a fake culture war while they're robbed blind by corrupt politicians. Like "virtue signalling". It's also a red flag that someone is racist and ignorant, and should be called out in the same way as flat earth, climate denial or any other range of denialist mindsets.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- shard972 5y ago
  @dang, cleanup on ilse flamewar
- anon7725 5y ago
  Marxism is a basis for critical theory. The critical theory that made a species jump from academia to the mainstream has its roots in the ideas of Gramsci and Marcuse, among others. I call it “cultural Marxism” because unlike plain old Marxism, it has relatively little to say about the redistribution of wealth and other economic interests. In this way it’s made itself innocuous to corporate America, which would otherwise mobilize its immune system to reject the ideas outright. Case in point: I recently sat through some corporate training on privilege that did not, once, mention wealth or economic privilege.
  - tomlockwood 5y ago
    What's Marxist about it, then?
    - anon7725 5y ago
      Marxism is about the politics of the underclass - the revolutionary struggle to achieve a just society by upending the inequities of Capitalism. So the proletarian uprising wrests control of society from the bourgeoisie. Cultural Marxism redefines the oppressed and oppressor along the lines of identity rather than economy. This makes it much more palatable to a capitalist society.

tomlockwood 5y ago

I don't know, reading the quote you've included in this comment - it seems a lot less "totalizing" than you're saying, considering the quote itself uses the loose terms "closer to the camp of" or "a common defense used by". There's already nuance and wiggle room there, so, I'm not sure how you're immediately launching into a pretty sanctimonious and totalizing statement that "cultural Marxism" admits zero daylight between extremes. Could you help me understand why you feel "cultural Marxism" is so, totally, totalizing?

moduspol 5y ago
Not OP, but you'd have to have blinders on to not see the political left increasingly branding everyone they disagree with as evil / Nazis / white supremacists. That's what happened above, and you're rationalizing it here.
- tomlockwood 5y ago
  If you think the political left increasingly branding "everyone" as evil / Nazis / white supremacists is bad - wait till you hear about people claiming the "political left" all brand people as evil / Nazis / white supremacists.
  - etchalon 5y ago
    I remember when the political right branded everyone as a communist.
anon7725 5y ago
> Could you help me understand why you feel "cultural Marxism" is so, totally, totalizing? It simply means that the ideology won’t stop until it has transformed all of culture. The progress thus far has been academia -> journalism -> tech companies. It’s coming for the rest of society. There is no area of life or society that this ideology does not claim to address. You missed “sanctified” - the ideology resists criticism. Do you not see that this is the way religion used to be?
- tomlockwood 5y ago
  > It simply means that the ideology won’t stop until it has transformed all of culture. The progress thus far has been academia -> journalism -> tech companies. It’s coming for the rest of society. There is no area of life or society that this ideology does not claim to address. So let me get this straight: You're railing against an ideology that you claim has progressed through a large section of society, and you think it is bad, and you think, presumably, that society ought to not be like that, at least in these many areas. And your criticism of that ideology is that it claims to address many areas of society? > You missed “sanctified” - the ideology resists criticism. Do you not see that this is the way religion used to be? You missed the bit where I used the word "sanctimonious".

etchalon 5y ago

The commenter did none of those things. They simply pointed out that the defense is often used by actual white supremacists.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Rapzid 5y ago
"I didn't do it". That's how you know they did it. The irony of this whole section of the thread in the context of racism...

at_a_remove 5y ago

And if someone sees you making an OK hand sign, that's a secret white supremacist gesture and you should be fired.

dools 5y ago

There is no such thing as "cultural marxism", it's a term manufactured by modern libertarians to distract people with a fake culture war while they're robbed blind by corrupt politicians. Like "virtue signalling". It's also a red flag that someone is racist and ignorant, and should be called out in the same way as flat earth, climate denial or any other range of denialist mindsets.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
shard972 5y ago
@dang, cleanup on ilse flamewar
anon7725 5y ago
Marxism is a basis for critical theory. The critical theory that made a species jump from academia to the mainstream has its roots in the ideas of Gramsci and Marcuse, among others. I call it “cultural Marxism” because unlike plain old Marxism, it has relatively little to say about the redistribution of wealth and other economic interests. In this way it’s made itself innocuous to corporate America, which would otherwise mobilize its immune system to reject the ideas outright. Case in point: I recently sat through some corporate training on privilege that did not, once, mention wealth or economic privilege.
- tomlockwood 5y ago
  What's Marxist about it, then?
  - anon7725 5y ago
    Marxism is about the politics of the underclass - the revolutionary struggle to achieve a just society by upending the inequities of Capitalism. So the proletarian uprising wrests control of society from the bourgeoisie. Cultural Marxism redefines the oppressed and oppressor along the lines of identity rather than economy. This makes it much more palatable to a capitalist society.