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Not married, but engaged! I ended up buying a diamond on James Allen (they allow you to select earth created or lab created). They allege their mined diamonds

Not married, but engaged! I ended up buying a diamond on James Allen (they allow you to select earth created or lab created). They allege their mined diamonds are "conflict free" https://www.jamesallen.com/education/diamonds/grading-conflict-free/ https://www.jamesallen.com/education/diamonds/grading-confli.... However, my feeling is I don't trust this 100%, and for my SO having a "real diamond" meant a lot. For me, in this case, the need to get a "real diamond" for my SO trumped my ethical stance on where the diamond was sourced. I think if you are going for 100% ethical purity, then you should either get no diamond (many other beautiful, precious gemstones if you still want one) or just go for it to make your SO happy.

sharken 5y ago
As long as the concept "real diamond", as in mined the traditional way exists, then real change will be slow. It will be interesting to see if companies will try to market "real diamonds" and how the market will respond.
- lewisflude 5y ago
  When you buy a mined diamond, you are paying for the story, of it being a finite thing, formed in the earth over a very long period of time. Lab grown diamonds don't have that story. Separately, the work that goes into cutting/finishing diamonds is incredible and there is a huge amount of variety between individual diamonds. They are very fascinating things.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    That sounds like industry apologetics, to me. I don't know that the population in general are that keen on geology.
    - lewisflude 5y ago
      I don't mean to sound like I'm apologising for the industry. I agree with you, the general population don't care about the geology of diamonds. But there's definitely this feeling that lab grown diamonds are seen as this "other" thing that "isn't real" and I think that largely stems from this mythical idea of diamonds being rare things that are found in the earth. I think it's quite common knowledge that diamonds were traditionally mined before we were able to make them in a lab, and because of this it's seen as the default to which any other methods of making a diamond are compared.
      - Nursie 5y ago
        I agree that the general population sees the ones dug out of the ground as "real" right now. I think the story being paid for is the DeBeers story though, of diamonds and marriage being inseperable, I don't think many people consider much where they came from, or consider the "rare thing dug up out of the ground" part of it particularly important in itself. I guess I'm splitting hairs, yes there is definitely a cultural hangup about mined diamonds being "real" and made diamonds being imitations, fake, whatever. I just don't think many people care that much about the actual backstory, they just want a 'real' one. As such I think the synthetic diamond industry has a bit of an uphill struggle on its hands, but not an unwinnable one if they can convince people that theirs are 'real' too. And to my (very literalist in many respects) mind, they are. (edit - I will add that I have gone out of my way to source lab-created stones and silver settings to make jewellery for my partner in the past, so far mostly using star-sapphires, and she seems to have loved them. I find the idea of lab-recreated gems pretty fascinating, and I think that enthusiasm helped.)
        lewisflude 5y ago
        Semi-related, but here's an interesting fact, De Beers (the company that popularised diamonds for engagement rings, hoards a huge supply, and creates artificial scarcity) has also invested heavily in lab grown diamonds: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/de-beers-is-said-to-make-u-turn-by-selling-man-made-diamonds https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/de-beers-... They've been doing this to try and undercut lab diamond growing company's in an attempt to retain control of the diamond market in an era where lab diamonds are becoming more and more popular as people consider their ethical choices.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    >When you buy a mined diamond, you are paying for the story, of it being a finite thing, formed in the earth over a very long period of time. Lab grown diamonds don't have that story. I do not know who the “you” is here, but I would bet most people that want to consume diamonds (especially mined) as an end user for display purposes want to do so to signal their (potential) purchasing power, especially amongst their network. Although, in this day and age, diamond and jewelry in general are pretty poor status signals. In general, material objects are a poorer show of status than simply having vacation pictures from all over the world constantly showing leisure time (the more finite and expensive commodity).
    - lewisflude 5y ago
      The "you" here is someone buying a mined diamond. I would imagine you're right on status being one of the top reasons someone buys a diamond in the first place. There's other reasons (aesthetics, tradition), but I think the earth diamonds status as a rare expensive thing and it's artificial scarcity is what keeps them so desireable.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Yes, so my point is it does not have much to do with the story of the diamond.
        lewisflude 5y ago
        I'd argue that the fact that they're rare, special things found in the earth is a big part of the story. At least from people I've talked to who prefer earth grown diamonds, this is something that's come up multiple times. However, people always turn a blind eye to the part of the story that involves cruelty, which is largely down to De Beers excellent marketing and creation of artificial scarcity.
simias 5y ago
Did your SO explain why it's so important for them to get a "real diamond"? While I understand wanting a valuable piece of jewelry as a token of the value of your relationship, I must admit that the extreme fixations on specifically diamonds always seemed rather odd given that there are so many other beautiful gemstones to chose from. Of course it's also cultural thing, I think diamond engagement rings are especially popular in America? This might well be the most successful marketing campaign in history.
- lewisflude 5y ago
  I'm not in America, but she studied jewellery and has a deep interest in gemstones. The story of it being formed in the earth over a long period of time is what gives earth diamonds something that lab diamonds just don't have, purely the story. I think this is largely down to the marketing of diamonds which has really embedded itself in the culture of jewellery and the rituals around getting engaged. We did discuss the ethical concerns of earth vs lab diamonds beforehand, and the decision to go with an earth diamond was intentional. The diamond was a yellow, cushion cut diamond. I agree, there are other gemstones that are often overlooked and have beautiful qualities.
sneak 5y ago
> However, my feeling is I don't trust this 100%, and for my SO having a "real diamond" meant a lot. For me, in this case, the need to get a "real diamond" for my SO trumped my ethical stance on where the diamond was sourced. Lab grown diamonds are real diamonds. There is a simple, easy, and cost-effective solution to the problem you seem to have skipped over here.
- lewisflude 5y ago
  I agree with you, which is why I put real diamond in quotes here. Lab or earth grown, both are real. Sadly, not everyone sees lab grown as having as much desirability as earth grown diamonds. While I would be open to receiving a lab diamond, I've met many people for whom it would be seen as a budget option. Although through an objective lens they are the same, for a lot of people there is an emotional difference between buying (or receiving) a lab grown vs earth grown diamond which means they can't be treated like-for-like in every situation.
  - sneak 5y ago
    > Sadly, not everyone sees lab grown as having as much desirability as earth grown diamonds. Fortunately, almost no diamond-wearer has the ability to tell the difference, which alludes to the easy solution.
    - lewisflude 5y ago
      Oh absolutely! My partner studied jewellery, and had an interest in picking the exact stone for the ring, so in this case that wasn't a viable option. I think in a lot of cases, when you're buying gifts for people etc. defaulting to a lab diamond is a great choice. Big companies (Pandora etc.) moving to lab diamonds will help make that choice the norm and push back against the stigma that lab diamonds aren't "the real thing".

sharken 5y ago

As long as the concept "real diamond", as in mined the traditional way exists, then real change will be slow. It will be interesting to see if companies will try to market "real diamonds" and how the market will respond.

lewisflude 5y ago
When you buy a mined diamond, you are paying for the story, of it being a finite thing, formed in the earth over a very long period of time. Lab grown diamonds don't have that story. Separately, the work that goes into cutting/finishing diamonds is incredible and there is a huge amount of variety between individual diamonds. They are very fascinating things.
- Nursie 5y ago
  That sounds like industry apologetics, to me. I don't know that the population in general are that keen on geology.
  - lewisflude 5y ago
    I don't mean to sound like I'm apologising for the industry. I agree with you, the general population don't care about the geology of diamonds. But there's definitely this feeling that lab grown diamonds are seen as this "other" thing that "isn't real" and I think that largely stems from this mythical idea of diamonds being rare things that are found in the earth. I think it's quite common knowledge that diamonds were traditionally mined before we were able to make them in a lab, and because of this it's seen as the default to which any other methods of making a diamond are compared.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      I agree that the general population sees the ones dug out of the ground as "real" right now. I think the story being paid for is the DeBeers story though, of diamonds and marriage being inseperable, I don't think many people consider much where they came from, or consider the "rare thing dug up out of the ground" part of it particularly important in itself. I guess I'm splitting hairs, yes there is definitely a cultural hangup about mined diamonds being "real" and made diamonds being imitations, fake, whatever. I just don't think many people care that much about the actual backstory, they just want a 'real' one. As such I think the synthetic diamond industry has a bit of an uphill struggle on its hands, but not an unwinnable one if they can convince people that theirs are 'real' too. And to my (very literalist in many respects) mind, they are. (edit - I will add that I have gone out of my way to source lab-created stones and silver settings to make jewellery for my partner in the past, so far mostly using star-sapphires, and she seems to have loved them. I find the idea of lab-recreated gems pretty fascinating, and I think that enthusiasm helped.)
      - lewisflude 5y ago
        Semi-related, but here's an interesting fact, De Beers (the company that popularised diamonds for engagement rings, hoards a huge supply, and creates artificial scarcity) has also invested heavily in lab grown diamonds: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/de-beers-is-said-to-make-u-turn-by-selling-man-made-diamonds https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/de-beers-... They've been doing this to try and undercut lab diamond growing company's in an attempt to retain control of the diamond market in an era where lab diamonds are becoming more and more popular as people consider their ethical choices.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  >When you buy a mined diamond, you are paying for the story, of it being a finite thing, formed in the earth over a very long period of time. Lab grown diamonds don't have that story. I do not know who the “you” is here, but I would bet most people that want to consume diamonds (especially mined) as an end user for display purposes want to do so to signal their (potential) purchasing power, especially amongst their network. Although, in this day and age, diamond and jewelry in general are pretty poor status signals. In general, material objects are a poorer show of status than simply having vacation pictures from all over the world constantly showing leisure time (the more finite and expensive commodity).
  - lewisflude 5y ago
    The "you" here is someone buying a mined diamond. I would imagine you're right on status being one of the top reasons someone buys a diamond in the first place. There's other reasons (aesthetics, tradition), but I think the earth diamonds status as a rare expensive thing and it's artificial scarcity is what keeps them so desireable.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Yes, so my point is it does not have much to do with the story of the diamond.
      - lewisflude 5y ago
        I'd argue that the fact that they're rare, special things found in the earth is a big part of the story. At least from people I've talked to who prefer earth grown diamonds, this is something that's come up multiple times. However, people always turn a blind eye to the part of the story that involves cruelty, which is largely down to De Beers excellent marketing and creation of artificial scarcity.

simias 5y ago

Did your SO explain why it's so important for them to get a "real diamond"? While I understand wanting a valuable piece of jewelry as a token of the value of your relationship, I must admit that the extreme fixations on specifically diamonds always seemed rather odd given that there are so many other beautiful gemstones to chose from. Of course it's also cultural thing, I think diamond engagement rings are especially popular in America? This might well be the most successful marketing campaign in history.

lewisflude 5y ago
I'm not in America, but she studied jewellery and has a deep interest in gemstones. The story of it being formed in the earth over a long period of time is what gives earth diamonds something that lab diamonds just don't have, purely the story. I think this is largely down to the marketing of diamonds which has really embedded itself in the culture of jewellery and the rituals around getting engaged. We did discuss the ethical concerns of earth vs lab diamonds beforehand, and the decision to go with an earth diamond was intentional. The diamond was a yellow, cushion cut diamond. I agree, there are other gemstones that are often overlooked and have beautiful qualities.

sneak 5y ago

> However, my feeling is I don't trust this 100%, and for my SO having a "real diamond" meant a lot. For me, in this case, the need to get a "real diamond" for my SO trumped my ethical stance on where the diamond was sourced. Lab grown diamonds are real diamonds. There is a simple, easy, and cost-effective solution to the problem you seem to have skipped over here.

lewisflude 5y ago
I agree with you, which is why I put real diamond in quotes here. Lab or earth grown, both are real. Sadly, not everyone sees lab grown as having as much desirability as earth grown diamonds. While I would be open to receiving a lab diamond, I've met many people for whom it would be seen as a budget option. Although through an objective lens they are the same, for a lot of people there is an emotional difference between buying (or receiving) a lab grown vs earth grown diamond which means they can't be treated like-for-like in every situation.
- sneak 5y ago
  > Sadly, not everyone sees lab grown as having as much desirability as earth grown diamonds. Fortunately, almost no diamond-wearer has the ability to tell the difference, which alludes to the easy solution.
  - lewisflude 5y ago
    Oh absolutely! My partner studied jewellery, and had an interest in picking the exact stone for the ring, so in this case that wasn't a viable option. I think in a lot of cases, when you're buying gifts for people etc. defaulting to a lab diamond is a great choice. Big companies (Pandora etc.) moving to lab diamonds will help make that choice the norm and push back against the stigma that lab diamonds aren't "the real thing".