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If our universe is just one big cellular automaton (that's what Stephen Wolfram claims in his physics project) then one would wonder if we see a similar effect

If our universe is just one big cellular automaton (that's what Stephen Wolfram claims in his physics project) then one would wonder if we see a similar effect in real life. Maybe the universe just doesn't use the right rule though.

LegitShady 5y ago
> If our universe is just one big cellular automaton (that's what Stephen Wolfram claims in his physics project) then one would wonder if we see a similar effect in real life. We ourselves and everything around us would be that evidence...it's finding out if everything is made up of cellular automata that's the hard part.
- ganafagol 5y ago
  I'm talking about this self-replicating effect in particular. In some distance far far away, there'd be some instance of me exactly identical and behaving exactly identically including writing these words right now. Or, more generally, some superimposed versions of me partially overlapping, as can be seen with those overlapping Es in the original article.
  - maze-le 5y ago
    This effect also happens with continuous models, as there is only a finite number of quantum states in any finite subset of space. In fact, any notion of infinite space will virtually guarantee that there are exact copies (infinite copies) of you and me doing what we do now. But it's basically only a philosophical question since we only have access to our observable universe.
  - tiborsaas 5y ago
    DNA copying is kinda similar. Also look into fractals, since they are self similar.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    >I'm talking about this self-replicating effect in particular. In some distance far far away, there'd be some instance of me exactly identical and behaving exactly identically including writing these words right now. Maybe. >Or, more generally, some superimposed versions of me partially overlapping, as can be seen with those overlapping Es in the original article. Maybe - it depends on the complexity of not just you but everything around you. There may be billions of similar yous around you, with some variation based on their history, but it's not close enough 'you' for your arbitrary definition. I guess what I'm saying is, it really depends on how it all works. The interactions of different cellular automata can still give rise to incredible complexity that might make identical yous very difficult or impossible. Twins have similar circumstances to a high degree but even they can be different physically and are always different experimentally. It's complicated.
  - bopbeepboop 5y ago
    > In some distance far far away, there'd be some instance of me exactly identical and behaving exactly identically including writing these words right now. From the perspective of your cells, this is (almost) true. There’s a whole tree of them branching since replicators originated here, and they’re surrounded by near clones of themselves amid many, many more distant copies. There are even interference patterns of lines that collide, eg gut bacteria and human cells.
mseepgood 5y ago
> If our universe is just one big cellular automaton Aren't cellular automata deterministic, but the universe is non-deterministic at the quantum level?
- thewakalix 5y ago
  Depends on who you ask. In the Everett interpretation, quantum mechanics is deterministic, and uncertainty about quantum mechanical measurements arises from indexical uncertainty (“which observer am I?”) rather than fundamental randomness.
- pelorat 5y ago
  Just like life in a cellular automata world could figure out the rules behind cell replication and destruction, they could never peer underneath at the mechanism driving it all. For us, is there a level underneath the quantum level? We can speculate (i.e. string and m-theory), but we may never find out because we're made of matter constrained by three spatial dimensions and our sensing equipment is similarly constrained. For an outside entity observing the universe, it may very well be deterministic, and what we see as quantum probabilities and non-determinism are simply limitations in our ability to build better testing equipment, because we can only work with what the universe provides to us (atoms and particles).
  - SuchAnonMuchWow 5y ago
    your comment made me think of this comic: http://english.bouletcorp.com/2011/12/08/pixel-quantum/ http://english.bouletcorp.com/2011/12/08/pixel-quantum/
- SigmundA 5y ago
  Why can't cellular automata rules contain a quantum_rand()? [1] Most games and simulations contain RNG's to make things interesting, quantum uncertainty seems to look very similar to my naive self. 1. https://content.wolfram.com/uploads/sites/34/2020/07/random-sequence-generation-cellular-automata.pdf https://content.wolfram.com/uploads/sites/34/2020/07/random-...
newdude116 5y ago
Stephen Wolfram did not invent this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Space
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

LegitShady 5y ago

> If our universe is just one big cellular automaton (that's what Stephen Wolfram claims in his physics project) then one would wonder if we see a similar effect in real life. We ourselves and everything around us would be that evidence...it's finding out if everything is made up of cellular automata that's the hard part.

ganafagol 5y ago
I'm talking about this self-replicating effect in particular. In some distance far far away, there'd be some instance of me exactly identical and behaving exactly identically including writing these words right now. Or, more generally, some superimposed versions of me partially overlapping, as can be seen with those overlapping Es in the original article.
- maze-le 5y ago
  This effect also happens with continuous models, as there is only a finite number of quantum states in any finite subset of space. In fact, any notion of infinite space will virtually guarantee that there are exact copies (infinite copies) of you and me doing what we do now. But it's basically only a philosophical question since we only have access to our observable universe.
- tiborsaas 5y ago
  DNA copying is kinda similar. Also look into fractals, since they are self similar.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  >I'm talking about this self-replicating effect in particular. In some distance far far away, there'd be some instance of me exactly identical and behaving exactly identically including writing these words right now. Maybe. >Or, more generally, some superimposed versions of me partially overlapping, as can be seen with those overlapping Es in the original article. Maybe - it depends on the complexity of not just you but everything around you. There may be billions of similar yous around you, with some variation based on their history, but it's not close enough 'you' for your arbitrary definition. I guess what I'm saying is, it really depends on how it all works. The interactions of different cellular automata can still give rise to incredible complexity that might make identical yous very difficult or impossible. Twins have similar circumstances to a high degree but even they can be different physically and are always different experimentally. It's complicated.
- bopbeepboop 5y ago
  > In some distance far far away, there'd be some instance of me exactly identical and behaving exactly identically including writing these words right now. From the perspective of your cells, this is (almost) true. There’s a whole tree of them branching since replicators originated here, and they’re surrounded by near clones of themselves amid many, many more distant copies. There are even interference patterns of lines that collide, eg gut bacteria and human cells.

mseepgood 5y ago

> If our universe is just one big cellular automaton Aren't cellular automata deterministic, but the universe is non-deterministic at the quantum level?

thewakalix 5y ago
Depends on who you ask. In the Everett interpretation, quantum mechanics is deterministic, and uncertainty about quantum mechanical measurements arises from indexical uncertainty (“which observer am I?”) rather than fundamental randomness.
pelorat 5y ago
Just like life in a cellular automata world could figure out the rules behind cell replication and destruction, they could never peer underneath at the mechanism driving it all. For us, is there a level underneath the quantum level? We can speculate (i.e. string and m-theory), but we may never find out because we're made of matter constrained by three spatial dimensions and our sensing equipment is similarly constrained. For an outside entity observing the universe, it may very well be deterministic, and what we see as quantum probabilities and non-determinism are simply limitations in our ability to build better testing equipment, because we can only work with what the universe provides to us (atoms and particles).
- SuchAnonMuchWow 5y ago
  your comment made me think of this comic: http://english.bouletcorp.com/2011/12/08/pixel-quantum/ http://english.bouletcorp.com/2011/12/08/pixel-quantum/
SigmundA 5y ago
Why can't cellular automata rules contain a quantum_rand()? [1] Most games and simulations contain RNG's to make things interesting, quantum uncertainty seems to look very similar to my naive self. 1. https://content.wolfram.com/uploads/sites/34/2020/07/random-sequence-generation-cellular-automata.pdf https://content.wolfram.com/uploads/sites/34/2020/07/random-...

newdude116 5y ago

Stephen Wolfram did not invent this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Space

deleted 5y ago
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