4 ms·

Is he going to hire those fired AI ethics researchers to Apple?

trhway 5y ago
i'm pretty sure that the way one of those fired ethics researchers exfiltrated data from Google wouldn't fly at Apple, and in general i've never heard about Apple allowing the open discussions like Google.
- simfree 5y ago
  The fired researchers were getting job offers a few weeks ago: https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/13/22370158/google-ai-ethics-timnit-gebru-margaret-mitchell-firing-reputation https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/13/22370158/google-ai-ethics... Has Google provided any evidence of substance regarding the exfiltration of data? The only thing I found is that she queried her own email inbox to find emails where her former coworker was discriminated against: https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/19/22292011/google-second-ethical-ai-researcher-fired https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/19/22292011/google-second-et...
  - caddemon 5y ago
    I don't think that link says the fired researchers are getting job offers? The only mention of job offers I see is Mitchell's tweet, which from the context seems to be about colleagues of hers currently at Google getting offers elsewhere. Basically she thinks there will be more resignations because more people are just now getting alternative offers. I couldn't find anything online about Gebru or Mitchell actually getting offers, although IIRC Gebru said she has no interest in industry right now anyway.
  - trhway 5y ago
    >Has Google provided any evidence of substance regarding the exfiltration of data? from your link "... included the exfiltration of confidential business-sensitive documents and private data of other employees,” Google said in a statement to Axios about Mitchell’s firing." if Google is making such a statement in such a public way and without evidence, the employee i'd suppose has a good chance of a settlement of a lifetime.
    - xenocyon 5y ago
      Proving defamation is actually quite hard. You have to prove both the untruthfulness of the statement made and prove that you have sustained monetary damages from it. If you manage to win, you will still likely be on the hook for your own legal fees. Finally, you will never recover the time sunk into this endeavor. For most people, it's simply not worth it.
      - prepend 5y ago
        Monetary damages from a company that just fired you is quite straightforward. And it’s quite simple to prove no data was exfiltrated. So through discovery, get email and network traffic, show no data sent inappropriately. This does seem like it’s straightforward, if valid. It may take time, but the longer it drags on, the higher the monetary damages. This is also something where you retain an attorney and go about your life. It’s not like I take an active role in a defamation lawsuit. Of course it’s not simple, but I think GP’s post is right in that were Google’s public statements wrong, it would be a big settlement. Thus it seems to me that they know what they said and make accurate statements.
utopcell 5y ago
It would be quite hypocritical if he didn't.
- jonathanlb 5y ago
  Agreed, but that assumes: 1) that he has the power to do so 2) that Mitchell and Gebru want to join Apple At the moment, we don't know either of these assumptions.
  - utopcell 5y ago
    I am assuming that he is joining as a manager, so he can bring candidates in for hiring. Also, surely whatever triggered his Google exit must not be an issue at Apple, since he decided to join there. That should be good enough for the two folks that you mention, no ?
  - prepend 5y ago
    And 3) he is interested in hiring them.
- crossroadsguy 5y ago
  And it would be hypocritical of the fired parties to join a place as restrictive (and oppressive?) as Apple. Not to mentioned the garden, the wall etc.

i'm pretty sure that the way one of those fired ethics researchers exfiltrated data from Google wouldn't fly at Apple, and in general i've never heard about Apple allowing the open discussions like Google.

simfree 5y ago
The fired researchers were getting job offers a few weeks ago: https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/13/22370158/google-ai-ethics-timnit-gebru-margaret-mitchell-firing-reputation https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/13/22370158/google-ai-ethics... Has Google provided any evidence of substance regarding the exfiltration of data? The only thing I found is that she queried her own email inbox to find emails where her former coworker was discriminated against: https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/19/22292011/google-second-ethical-ai-researcher-fired https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/19/22292011/google-second-et...
- caddemon 5y ago
  I don't think that link says the fired researchers are getting job offers? The only mention of job offers I see is Mitchell's tweet, which from the context seems to be about colleagues of hers currently at Google getting offers elsewhere. Basically she thinks there will be more resignations because more people are just now getting alternative offers. I couldn't find anything online about Gebru or Mitchell actually getting offers, although IIRC Gebru said she has no interest in industry right now anyway.
- trhway 5y ago
  >Has Google provided any evidence of substance regarding the exfiltration of data? from your link "... included the exfiltration of confidential business-sensitive documents and private data of other employees,” Google said in a statement to Axios about Mitchell’s firing." if Google is making such a statement in such a public way and without evidence, the employee i'd suppose has a good chance of a settlement of a lifetime.
  - xenocyon 5y ago
    Proving defamation is actually quite hard. You have to prove both the untruthfulness of the statement made and prove that you have sustained monetary damages from it. If you manage to win, you will still likely be on the hook for your own legal fees. Finally, you will never recover the time sunk into this endeavor. For most people, it's simply not worth it.
    - prepend 5y ago
      Monetary damages from a company that just fired you is quite straightforward. And it’s quite simple to prove no data was exfiltrated. So through discovery, get email and network traffic, show no data sent inappropriately. This does seem like it’s straightforward, if valid. It may take time, but the longer it drags on, the higher the monetary damages. This is also something where you retain an attorney and go about your life. It’s not like I take an active role in a defamation lawsuit. Of course it’s not simple, but I think GP’s post is right in that were Google’s public statements wrong, it would be a big settlement. Thus it seems to me that they know what they said and make accurate statements.

utopcell 5y ago

It would be quite hypocritical if he didn't.

jonathanlb 5y ago
Agreed, but that assumes: 1) that he has the power to do so 2) that Mitchell and Gebru want to join Apple At the moment, we don't know either of these assumptions.
- utopcell 5y ago
  I am assuming that he is joining as a manager, so he can bring candidates in for hiring. Also, surely whatever triggered his Google exit must not be an issue at Apple, since he decided to join there. That should be good enough for the two folks that you mention, no ?
- prepend 5y ago
  And 3) he is interested in hiring them.
crossroadsguy 5y ago
And it would be hypocritical of the fired parties to join a place as restrictive (and oppressive?) as Apple. Not to mentioned the garden, the wall etc.