5 ms·

I think the problem is different. Nobody should work that hard. Not just for the sake of our children, but yes for their sake. But for our sake, for the sake

by worik 6y ago

I think the problem is different. Nobody should work that hard. Not just for the sake of our children, but yes for their sake. But for our sake, for the sake of everybody. We all need to spend more time working on our relationships, smelling the flowers, tasting the tastes. We have one life and one life only. Getting into a competition about how we waste it on commerce is tragic. Some people feel a need to work work work obsessively. IMO that should be viewed as a mental illness and needing treatment.

kelnos 6y ago
I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. It's funny to consider that futurists of the early/mid 20th century expected that automation would take over most jobs and that people would have much more leisure time. If anything, the opposite has happened, with unskilled workers needing to hold more than one job just to get by, and many skilled workers -- especially salaried workers -- expected to put in many more than 40 hours a week in order to boost company productivity without increasing labor cost. And the weird thing is that most people seem to think that the meaning of life is work, and without work, people are rudderless and dull. It's really disheartening the number of people I talk to about my desire for early retirement, and the first objection they have is, "won't you be bored without a job?" As if I can't find enough hobbies to do to fill my time. I already don't have enough time for my hobbies, and work is the reason! Many parents say they work to give their children a better life. And sure, their kids might grow up having more comfort and fewer unmet wants than they did growing up. And the kids might have better jobs prospects when they become adults. But those job prospects probably involve similar or longer working hours as the parents'! Even if that comes with greater earning potential, it seems like a questionable trade.
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  > I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. Unless worik has a wildly different definition of mental illness from the USA and every other industrialized society he’s advocating for caging and drugging people who have different preferences from him. Turing killed himself because of how he was treated for his “mental illness”. The Soviets treated many people with antipsychotics for “slow schizophrenia” for opposing Communism. Not understanding or supporting other people’s preferences is very, very far from calling it a mental illness.
  - worik 6y ago
    Actually I think making money into the billions is a symptom of obsessive compulsive disorder. But I have no power, so my opinion is cheep!
- prawn 6y ago
  I think you're right in that for many people, life is directionless without work and a schedule handed to them. I find it incredible that there are politicians in their 70s and 80s - especially considering the demands that job would have in terms of travel and public events. Buy a caravan and go on an extended holiday like the stereotypical retiree! And that there are exceptionally wealthy people still with their nose to the grindstone.
  - barry-cotter 6y ago
    Those politicians and businesses people are living their best life, doing the thing they are excellent at. Not what I’d do in their situations but no one asks why a novelist or painter is still practicing their art in their 90s.
    - prawn 6y ago
      An artist or writer would have the bulk of their time in their studio or at their desk. Things that people aspire to do as a hobby. There'd optionally be time at galleries/openings. A politician would have day after day packed with events and travel. You'd need to be switched on, constantly. I can appreciate that a career politician would feel it was their calling, but I often wonder when they plan to step back and let others influence proceedings.
      - barry-cotter 6y ago
        These politicians and businesspeople are also doing things they’d do as a hobby. They’re talking to tons of people, organizing things and getting things done. They’re doing extrovert things. Not my preference but de gustibus non est disputandum.
        prawn 6y ago
        Fair enough. I'm sure there are similar opportunities with less gruelling schedules though! I remember reading a HN thread years ago about retirement hastening decline for some people. I guess many just don't know different or don't find/enjoy hobbies in a holiday context (fossicking for gems, photography, fishing, etc). For an extrovert, it might be volunteering, but then I guess maybe the 80yo politician views what they're doing as volunteering.
legostormtroopr 6y ago
> Nobody should work that hard. > Some people feel a need to work work work obsessively. IMO that should be viewed as a mental illness and needing treatment. This is a massive value judgement - for those of us who are lucky to legitimately enjoy their career, why should we slow down? Why exactly should someone be coerced to stop what they enjoy because others are are unwilling or unable to perform the same? I'm an amature runner and am never going to be as fast as Usain Bolt - should he not be allowed to practice so that I don't feel bad?
- worik 6y ago
  I care not about professional sport. If I ruled the world they would not exist. Terrible incentives to incredibly unhealthy behaviour. I enjoy my career. I almost love my work. If I were to be doing it eighty hours a week, what does that say about me? "Armchair diagnosis" are OK.

by worik 6y ago

kelnos 6y ago

I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. It's funny to consider that futurists of the early/mid 20th century expected that automation would take over most jobs and that people would have much more leisure time. If anything, the opposite has happened, with unskilled workers needing to hold more than one job just to get by, and many skilled workers -- especially salaried workers -- expected to put in many more than 40 hours a week in order to boost company productivity without increasing labor cost. And the weird thing is that most people seem to think that the meaning of life is work, and without work, people are rudderless and dull. It's really disheartening the number of people I talk to about my desire for early retirement, and the first objection they have is, "won't you be bored without a job?" As if I can't find enough hobbies to do to fill my time. I already don't have enough time for my hobbies, and work is the reason! Many parents say they work to give their children a better life. And sure, their kids might grow up having more comfort and fewer unmet wants than they did growing up. And the kids might have better jobs prospects when they become adults. But those job prospects probably involve similar or longer working hours as the parents'! Even if that comes with greater earning potential, it seems like a questionable trade.

barry-cotter 6y ago
> I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. Unless worik has a wildly different definition of mental illness from the USA and every other industrialized society he’s advocating for caging and drugging people who have different preferences from him. Turing killed himself because of how he was treated for his “mental illness”. The Soviets treated many people with antipsychotics for “slow schizophrenia” for opposing Communism. Not understanding or supporting other people’s preferences is very, very far from calling it a mental illness.
- worik 6y ago
  Actually I think making money into the billions is a symptom of obsessive compulsive disorder. But I have no power, so my opinion is cheep!
prawn 6y ago
I think you're right in that for many people, life is directionless without work and a schedule handed to them. I find it incredible that there are politicians in their 70s and 80s - especially considering the demands that job would have in terms of travel and public events. Buy a caravan and go on an extended holiday like the stereotypical retiree! And that there are exceptionally wealthy people still with their nose to the grindstone.
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  Those politicians and businesses people are living their best life, doing the thing they are excellent at. Not what I’d do in their situations but no one asks why a novelist or painter is still practicing their art in their 90s.
  - prawn 6y ago
    An artist or writer would have the bulk of their time in their studio or at their desk. Things that people aspire to do as a hobby. There'd optionally be time at galleries/openings. A politician would have day after day packed with events and travel. You'd need to be switched on, constantly. I can appreciate that a career politician would feel it was their calling, but I often wonder when they plan to step back and let others influence proceedings.
    - barry-cotter 6y ago
      These politicians and businesspeople are also doing things they’d do as a hobby. They’re talking to tons of people, organizing things and getting things done. They’re doing extrovert things. Not my preference but de gustibus non est disputandum.
      - prawn 6y ago
        Fair enough. I'm sure there are similar opportunities with less gruelling schedules though! I remember reading a HN thread years ago about retirement hastening decline for some people. I guess many just don't know different or don't find/enjoy hobbies in a holiday context (fossicking for gems, photography, fishing, etc). For an extrovert, it might be volunteering, but then I guess maybe the 80yo politician views what they're doing as volunteering.

legostormtroopr 6y ago

> Nobody should work that hard. > Some people feel a need to work work work obsessively. IMO that should be viewed as a mental illness and needing treatment. This is a massive value judgement - for those of us who are lucky to legitimately enjoy their career, why should we slow down? Why exactly should someone be coerced to stop what they enjoy because others are are unwilling or unable to perform the same? I'm an amature runner and am never going to be as fast as Usain Bolt - should he not be allowed to practice so that I don't feel bad?

worik 6y ago
I care not about professional sport. If I ruled the world they would not exist. Terrible incentives to incredibly unhealthy behaviour. I enjoy my career. I almost love my work. If I were to be doing it eighty hours a week, what does that say about me? "Armchair diagnosis" are OK.