5 ms·

It's also difficult for fathers. I don't know if I buy the "mom's do all the work" line anymore. When I take my kid to soccer practice it's all dads.

bena 5y ago
I'd have to say it's partly a "grass is greener" kind of thing. Just like that one person at a job who apparently "does all the the work". At least according to them. To hear them tell it, the entire enterprise would collapse if they weren't holding it together by sheer force of will. But surprisingly, the place operated just fine before they were brought on and it'll operate fine after. It's just that we get so focused on our contributions that we don't see what others do as contributions. I'm sure the parents who don't take the kids to soccer practice see soccer practice as "time off" to some degree. Sure, you have to drive and what not, but once you're there, you're just sitting around. And blah blah. I think I may be experiencing this right now. We just bought a house and we've been getting it set up and what not. My wife is an elementary school teacher at the school her son attends. So she's finishing the school year in that district. And since it's an hour and half drive each way, it's easier for her and the kid to stay with her mother. It's been a steady stream of ordering what we needed, building those things, etc. I've felt like I've not really had any time off. Especially since I'm doing this around work. I'm under the impression my wife has not seen it that way. Either through underestimating build times or just not being aware. I've pointed out things and she's said that she flat out did not notice. Also, there's a thing the kid likes to do. There's a certain game we play and it's me and him. She can spectate, but the actual play involves me. I'm not 100% into this game for various reasons, but I recognize that it's important to him and it's also important to spend that time with him. It may be a response from my own childhood, but I do not brush off his requests for time lightly. And I don't dictate how we play or socialize either. I leave that mostly up to him. He needs to explore his own creativity and whatnot. I think my wife gets a touch jealous about the ways he favors me in some regards. And it's hard to talk about it, because in my opinion, it's because if she wants to do something else, she'll push it to "later" or she'll try and change the manner in which he plays because it's not "right". Basically, she's trying to define the interaction on her terms, while I allow him to define it on his. But she probably sees some of the time I spend with him as "time off" whereas I see it as performing not exactly a chore, but not as leisure time either. But who gets to define work and who gets to define leisure? So, I have issues with the whole "emotional labor" movement. It reeks of the person I mentioned in the beginning, someone who can only see their own contributions. Ultimately, it comes down to the question of whether or not something makes your life easier or harder. If it makes your life easier, maybe don't bite the hand that feeds you. Personally, I think everyone should live truly alone, no roommates, no partners, just them and whatever pets they may have. See what it takes to literally do everything required. I think it would give a lot of people perspective.
- lr4444lr 5y ago
  The thing is, before you have kids, which no one AFAIK ever tells you, is you completely take for granted the mental "downtime" of not having to worry about another human being's safety and emotional health (e.g., your example to whit, you're just "sitting" at the game, but do you think your son would really like if you opened up your laptop and totally ignored him for 2 hours?). And the "emotional labor" isn't so much what you're _doing_ for your kid as much as being on constant mental alert yourself. Every minute that your kids are not asleep, you're keeping a spare eye and ear and the attendant mental energy on making sure they're reasonably safe and okay, and that's damn exhausting - even when they're sleeping, you can't go down as soundly, because they might wake up and need you. And those subconscious mental cycles you use to work on problems, the lack of time you just "sit down" when you wake up in the morning or finish breakfast or get home from work to decompress - not to mention the sleep deprivation - REALLY add up.
  - bena 5y ago
    Indeed. I find myself in sort of holding patterns. My natural rhythm puts me going to bed later and my wife is usually in bed minutes after we've put the kid to bed, but he'll sometimes pop out and need something, so I've conditioned myself to just sort of have that in the back of my mind for about an hour or two after his official bedtime. Also, I'm an active participant in the play. I have voices to do, commentary to make, activities to perform. There's a whole universe of characters in his room engaged in various competitions. Ignoring him isn't really an option. Sometimes it really feels like I'm just switching between wife, kid, work, and friends.

bena 5y ago

I'd have to say it's partly a "grass is greener" kind of thing. Just like that one person at a job who apparently "does all the the work". At least according to them. To hear them tell it, the entire enterprise would collapse if they weren't holding it together by sheer force of will. But surprisingly, the place operated just fine before they were brought on and it'll operate fine after. It's just that we get so focused on our contributions that we don't see what others do as contributions. I'm sure the parents who don't take the kids to soccer practice see soccer practice as "time off" to some degree. Sure, you have to drive and what not, but once you're there, you're just sitting around. And blah blah. I think I may be experiencing this right now. We just bought a house and we've been getting it set up and what not. My wife is an elementary school teacher at the school her son attends. So she's finishing the school year in that district. And since it's an hour and half drive each way, it's easier for her and the kid to stay with her mother. It's been a steady stream of ordering what we needed, building those things, etc. I've felt like I've not really had any time off. Especially since I'm doing this around work. I'm under the impression my wife has not seen it that way. Either through underestimating build times or just not being aware. I've pointed out things and she's said that she flat out did not notice. Also, there's a thing the kid likes to do. There's a certain game we play and it's me and him. She can spectate, but the actual play involves me. I'm not 100% into this game for various reasons, but I recognize that it's important to him and it's also important to spend that time with him. It may be a response from my own childhood, but I do not brush off his requests for time lightly. And I don't dictate how we play or socialize either. I leave that mostly up to him. He needs to explore his own creativity and whatnot. I think my wife gets a touch jealous about the ways he favors me in some regards. And it's hard to talk about it, because in my opinion, it's because if she wants to do something else, she'll push it to "later" or she'll try and change the manner in which he plays because it's not "right". Basically, she's trying to define the interaction on her terms, while I allow him to define it on his. But she probably sees some of the time I spend with him as "time off" whereas I see it as performing not exactly a chore, but not as leisure time either. But who gets to define work and who gets to define leisure? So, I have issues with the whole "emotional labor" movement. It reeks of the person I mentioned in the beginning, someone who can only see their own contributions. Ultimately, it comes down to the question of whether or not something makes your life easier or harder. If it makes your life easier, maybe don't bite the hand that feeds you. Personally, I think everyone should live truly alone, no roommates, no partners, just them and whatever pets they may have. See what it takes to literally do everything required. I think it would give a lot of people perspective.

lr4444lr 5y ago
The thing is, before you have kids, which no one AFAIK ever tells you, is you completely take for granted the mental "downtime" of not having to worry about another human being's safety and emotional health (e.g., your example to whit, you're just "sitting" at the game, but do you think your son would really like if you opened up your laptop and totally ignored him for 2 hours?). And the "emotional labor" isn't so much what you're _doing_ for your kid as much as being on constant mental alert yourself. Every minute that your kids are not asleep, you're keeping a spare eye and ear and the attendant mental energy on making sure they're reasonably safe and okay, and that's damn exhausting - even when they're sleeping, you can't go down as soundly, because they might wake up and need you. And those subconscious mental cycles you use to work on problems, the lack of time you just "sit down" when you wake up in the morning or finish breakfast or get home from work to decompress - not to mention the sleep deprivation - REALLY add up.
- bena 5y ago
  Indeed. I find myself in sort of holding patterns. My natural rhythm puts me going to bed later and my wife is usually in bed minutes after we've put the kid to bed, but he'll sometimes pop out and need something, so I've conditioned myself to just sort of have that in the back of my mind for about an hour or two after his official bedtime. Also, I'm an active participant in the play. I have voices to do, commentary to make, activities to perform. There's a whole universe of characters in his room engaged in various competitions. Ignoring him isn't really an option. Sometimes it really feels like I'm just switching between wife, kid, work, and friends.