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It strikes me that there is some kind of cognitive dissonance that prevents people from recognizing their time as a commodity. I understand and support the push

It strikes me that there is some kind of cognitive dissonance that prevents people from recognizing their time as a commodity. I understand and support the push to normalize women in the workplace in leadership positions but there seems to be a failure to recognize the cost. I think the "traditional" family roles of mother stays home and father works are outdated but I think the train goes off the tracks when people want to throw the whole idea out completely. To me, the outdated part is just the gender roles. I don't think both parents can be CEOs, someone has to be the primary caretaker because, as so many mothers have said in the past, it's a full time job. Couples of any configuration need to have an understanding of who is going to take what responsibilities when they have kids and often/sometimes that's going to require sacrifices in both career and earning potential for one or both parents.

LatteLazy 6y ago
I did an exercise once where I budgeted time for a full month. It forced me to know/accept/realise up-front I couldn't do at least 40% of the things I wanted. There simply wasn't time. That was really unpleasant even though I knew I would never have actually managed to do that extra 40%. I haven't repeated the exercise because although it was useful, it was simply too unpleasant. I trade some inefficiency and disappointment later for enthusiasm now. So I'm happily cognitively discontent I guess.
ZephyrBlu 6y ago
I think it's because time just happens, so it's easy to not think about how you're spending it compared to spending money, for instance.
worik 6y ago
I think the problem is different. Nobody should work that hard. Not just for the sake of our children, but yes for their sake. But for our sake, for the sake of everybody. We all need to spend more time working on our relationships, smelling the flowers, tasting the tastes. We have one life and one life only. Getting into a competition about how we waste it on commerce is tragic. Some people feel a need to work work work obsessively. IMO that should be viewed as a mental illness and needing treatment.
- kelnos 6y ago
  I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. It's funny to consider that futurists of the early/mid 20th century expected that automation would take over most jobs and that people would have much more leisure time. If anything, the opposite has happened, with unskilled workers needing to hold more than one job just to get by, and many skilled workers -- especially salaried workers -- expected to put in many more than 40 hours a week in order to boost company productivity without increasing labor cost. And the weird thing is that most people seem to think that the meaning of life is work, and without work, people are rudderless and dull. It's really disheartening the number of people I talk to about my desire for early retirement, and the first objection they have is, "won't you be bored without a job?" As if I can't find enough hobbies to do to fill my time. I already don't have enough time for my hobbies, and work is the reason! Many parents say they work to give their children a better life. And sure, their kids might grow up having more comfort and fewer unmet wants than they did growing up. And the kids might have better jobs prospects when they become adults. But those job prospects probably involve similar or longer working hours as the parents'! Even if that comes with greater earning potential, it seems like a questionable trade.
  - barry-cotter 6y ago
    > I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. Unless worik has a wildly different definition of mental illness from the USA and every other industrialized society he’s advocating for caging and drugging people who have different preferences from him. Turing killed himself because of how he was treated for his “mental illness”. The Soviets treated many people with antipsychotics for “slow schizophrenia” for opposing Communism. Not understanding or supporting other people’s preferences is very, very far from calling it a mental illness.
    - worik 6y ago
      Actually I think making money into the billions is a symptom of obsessive compulsive disorder. But I have no power, so my opinion is cheep!
virtue3 6y ago
Ill take it a step further: I think child rearing is incredibly difficult if both parents are entirely focused on their careers and view them as their top priority. I think it works out much better if one of the parents is much more low key about their career and can shift focus away from it more easily when emergencies / etc happen.
golemiprague 6y ago
I don't think gender roles is a problem, why did we decide that it is? On average women want to care for people more than men, it is manifesting also on the type of jobs they choose which are more on the care taking side. Gender is just a marker like any other marker, physical strange, IQ, social skills and you could find disparities in average work choices also based on those parameters. The genders are not the same, not biologically and not mentally and average differences should be expected and even encouraged, we don't want to push people to do things they don't want and suitable to do.
arminiusreturns 6y ago
I think you are right about the lack of recognizing time value, but the rest of the problem is making assumptions based on sex or anything else and then proscribing them. There are all kinds of people who do t fit into all these nice little labels being thrown about, and they also get neglected.

LatteLazy 6y ago

I did an exercise once where I budgeted time for a full month. It forced me to know/accept/realise up-front I couldn't do at least 40% of the things I wanted. There simply wasn't time. That was really unpleasant even though I knew I would never have actually managed to do that extra 40%. I haven't repeated the exercise because although it was useful, it was simply too unpleasant. I trade some inefficiency and disappointment later for enthusiasm now. So I'm happily cognitively discontent I guess.

ZephyrBlu 6y ago

I think it's because time just happens, so it's easy to not think about how you're spending it compared to spending money, for instance.

worik 6y ago

I think the problem is different. Nobody should work that hard. Not just for the sake of our children, but yes for their sake. But for our sake, for the sake of everybody. We all need to spend more time working on our relationships, smelling the flowers, tasting the tastes. We have one life and one life only. Getting into a competition about how we waste it on commerce is tragic. Some people feel a need to work work work obsessively. IMO that should be viewed as a mental illness and needing treatment.

kelnos 6y ago
I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. It's funny to consider that futurists of the early/mid 20th century expected that automation would take over most jobs and that people would have much more leisure time. If anything, the opposite has happened, with unskilled workers needing to hold more than one job just to get by, and many skilled workers -- especially salaried workers -- expected to put in many more than 40 hours a week in order to boost company productivity without increasing labor cost. And the weird thing is that most people seem to think that the meaning of life is work, and without work, people are rudderless and dull. It's really disheartening the number of people I talk to about my desire for early retirement, and the first objection they have is, "won't you be bored without a job?" As if I can't find enough hobbies to do to fill my time. I already don't have enough time for my hobbies, and work is the reason! Many parents say they work to give their children a better life. And sure, their kids might grow up having more comfort and fewer unmet wants than they did growing up. And the kids might have better jobs prospects when they become adults. But those job prospects probably involve similar or longer working hours as the parents'! Even if that comes with greater earning potential, it seems like a questionable trade.
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  > I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. Unless worik has a wildly different definition of mental illness from the USA and every other industrialized society he’s advocating for caging and drugging people who have different preferences from him. Turing killed himself because of how he was treated for his “mental illness”. The Soviets treated many people with antipsychotics for “slow schizophrenia” for opposing Communism. Not understanding or supporting other people’s preferences is very, very far from calling it a mental illness.
  - worik 6y ago
    Actually I think making money into the billions is a symptom of obsessive compulsive disorder. But I have no power, so my opinion is cheep!

virtue3 6y ago

Ill take it a step further: I think child rearing is incredibly difficult if both parents are entirely focused on their careers and view them as their top priority. I think it works out much better if one of the parents is much more low key about their career and can shift focus away from it more easily when emergencies / etc happen.

golemiprague 6y ago

I don't think gender roles is a problem, why did we decide that it is? On average women want to care for people more than men, it is manifesting also on the type of jobs they choose which are more on the care taking side. Gender is just a marker like any other marker, physical strange, IQ, social skills and you could find disparities in average work choices also based on those parameters. The genders are not the same, not biologically and not mentally and average differences should be expected and even encouraged, we don't want to push people to do things they don't want and suitable to do.

arminiusreturns 6y ago

I think you are right about the lack of recognizing time value, but the rest of the problem is making assumptions based on sex or anything else and then proscribing them. There are all kinds of people who do t fit into all these nice little labels being thrown about, and they also get neglected.