4 ms·

We don't know what the long term effects of either the virus or the vaccine are on a human. Hell we can't possibly even have data on what the long term effects

by krona 5y ago

We don't know what the long term effects of either the virus or the vaccine are on a human. Hell we can't possibly even have data on what the long term effects are on humans. It doesn't matter how many people have been exposed.

arcticbull 5y ago
Luckily we know how vaccines work. There’s nothing particularly new about this one. Vaccines arent magic; you trigger an immune response by getting a part of the virus into your body. It’s a pretty understood process. So let me ask you instead, how many years would make you feel comfortable? Five? 10? 50? I prefer to rely on the wealth of existing information, and knowing the cost of inaction is much greater than action.
- krona 5y ago
  > How many years would make you feel comfortable? Five? 10? 50? How long do you plan on living? To give a vaccine to say, an 8 year old child, with no health concerns and excellent natural immunity to a disease (better than say, for seasonal flu), then it stands to reason that you would need so much data to show that the absolute risk reduction was greater than 0 (and not below 0), that the question is barely even worth considering; why not just wait until the child reaches a suitable age, at which point we'd already have the data?
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    I wasn't actually talking about children, however, while they themselves are not at elevated risk from COVID, children are little filth monsters who spread disease to everyone around them. The risk is they pass it on, and we are talking about aggregate population risk. Nothing is risk-free, and demanding 80 years of data to know a vaccine has absolutely no long-term results when vaccine risk profiles are pretty well understood is not a reasonable ask.
    - grillvogel 5y ago
      there are between 0 and 1 years of data right now. most vaccines take many years for approval, 80 is a bit of a stretch
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        I was responding to the statement "how long do you plan on living?" made with respect to children. However, there's far more than 1 year of data on mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines. The thing is lay people really have no basis for saying "there's not enough data" and "it's too fast" -- the scientists who study this are the ones with the background to make that assessment. All we really have are gut feelings and anecdota.

by krona 5y ago

arcticbull 5y ago

Luckily we know how vaccines work. There’s nothing particularly new about this one. Vaccines arent magic; you trigger an immune response by getting a part of the virus into your body. It’s a pretty understood process. So let me ask you instead, how many years would make you feel comfortable? Five? 10? 50? I prefer to rely on the wealth of existing information, and knowing the cost of inaction is much greater than action.

krona 5y ago
> How many years would make you feel comfortable? Five? 10? 50? How long do you plan on living? To give a vaccine to say, an 8 year old child, with no health concerns and excellent natural immunity to a disease (better than say, for seasonal flu), then it stands to reason that you would need so much data to show that the absolute risk reduction was greater than 0 (and not below 0), that the question is barely even worth considering; why not just wait until the child reaches a suitable age, at which point we'd already have the data?
- arcticbull 5y ago
  I wasn't actually talking about children, however, while they themselves are not at elevated risk from COVID, children are little filth monsters who spread disease to everyone around them. The risk is they pass it on, and we are talking about aggregate population risk. Nothing is risk-free, and demanding 80 years of data to know a vaccine has absolutely no long-term results when vaccine risk profiles are pretty well understood is not a reasonable ask.
  - grillvogel 5y ago
    there are between 0 and 1 years of data right now. most vaccines take many years for approval, 80 is a bit of a stretch
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      I was responding to the statement "how long do you plan on living?" made with respect to children. However, there's far more than 1 year of data on mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines. The thing is lay people really have no basis for saying "there's not enough data" and "it's too fast" -- the scientists who study this are the ones with the background to make that assessment. All we really have are gut feelings and anecdota.