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The focus on "start-ups" here, while not exclusively, does sway far toward the VC-model, of course because that's also YC's model. Is that model nearly incompa

The focus on "start-ups" here, while not exclusively, does sway far toward the VC-model, of course because that's also YC's model. Is that model nearly incompatible with parenting? It might be. But that doesn't mean that there aren't parallel eco-systems of "start-ups" for those with various lifestyles (I know, lifestyle b**** is a dirty word here.).

loxs 5y ago
I think they are quite incompatible. Me and my wife have a 1y4m old and we mostly don't do anything else nowadays. Other than that we have (had?) a startup that is now mostly on hold, except for some hacking that we do now and then when one of our mothers is around. We are very lucky that we are mostly financially independent from before our son was born, otherwise I would have to go work in an office and it would be a lot harder for my wife to look after the baby.
- bladegash 5y ago
  I really do not mean any offense by this - but how is a nearly one and a half year old requiring full-time attention from two people? I ask this as a single dad of two kids, one of them since they were < 1.
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    Some children require more attention than others.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    One parent serves as redundancy for the other. I don’t know how you did it, but when we had just one baby/toddler, and no other kids or relatives to watch them, one adult is constantly watching the kid, and the other is taking care of household tasks. The person watching the kid looks like they have spare time, but it’s garbage time because your attention is diverted to the kid every couple minutes or less.
    - bladegash 5y ago
      That’s fair, but perhaps there are also some parents that pay far more attention to their children than they really require or is even healthy for them. I found this especially true with our first born, where once you have a second, you quickly realize you probably gave them just a tad too much attention than was necessary. Children have been raised in situations with single parents, ones where one or both parents work full time, etc. Day cares are somehow able to manage with one teacher to 10+ young children. Have we been failing at child rearing since, well, the beginning of time? I’m also not sure what garbage time with a < 2 year old would really be…they honestly don’t do much nor can they learn to do much at that age. Don’t get me wrong, plenty of meaningful ways to spend time with a child that way, I just don’t really know how you spend 8-12 hours a day giving focused attention to a 1 1/2 year old. But to each their own and not my place to judge anyone else’s parenting style.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        By garbage time, I mean I can't productively use the time I'm spending being responsible for the kid to do any involved task. I'm not saying I interact with the kid the whole time, but I have to keep an eye on the toddler to make sure they're not hurting themselves, or more likely, the toddler is pestering me to play with them. They play with their own toys and pots and pans for a few minutes, but it's not long before they see you on the laptop or whatever and want to get up in your lap. It's easier if there are other toddlers to play with and how a daycare can watch multiple toddlers with one adult.
        bladegash 5y ago
        I hear you, 100% - it’s not easy no matter how you cut it. Infants and toddlers are a handful and they love playing with their parents! Mine are a bit older now (8 and 5), but I will be a bit sad when they no longer want my attention as much, so I’m trying to enjoy it while it lasts!
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        "but it's not long before they see you on the laptop or whatever and want to get up in your lap." And do you feel, you always have to obey to your childs wishes? Don't you think it is important to learn for them,to respect other peoples wishes, too? It is an ongoing struggle, of course, but after I started to pay more attention to my needs and be consequent about it, even if he goes hysterical - it became a lot easier for all of us. He can now (2 years) accept a no, if it is a real no.
  - afavour 5y ago
    "we mostly don't do anything else nowadays" != "requiring full time attention" I still have downtime after having a kid, but I'm much less motivated to spend it on a side project because I'm that much more exhausted.
    - iso1210 5y ago
      OP seems to think that looking after a single child is more effort than available from two parents, one of whom has an office job
  - iso1210 5y ago
    god knows how normal people cope!
    - loxs 5y ago
      We are wondering the same, especially during the pandemic
      - iso1210 5y ago
        I can see how having two full time jobs is tricky with say a 2-year-old, but one person full time looking after half a dozen kids and a house is not rocket science
  - loxs 5y ago
    I didn’t say it’s impossible. We can optimize our time better, we can hire a nanny, she can stop breastfeeding at several months of age etc. But do we want to? It’s a personal/family decision and it’s definitely based on circumstances and necessities. Historically people have raised children in dire conditions. Still would I rather do a startup or have a regular job while raising babies? I don’t think I would ever go the startup route. Would I do a startup otherwise? Hell yeah. You may think differently, but my bubble definitely leans towards either having babies or startups, not both - I know some failed marriages and/or startups while trying both. Of course, there is also the rare success in both (I know one such).
    - bladegash 5y ago
      Oh, by all means if you’re able to choose to do so via the means and desire, I think it’s a great opportunity for not only your child, but also for you and your spouse. I was more surprised at what seemed like was a suggestion that you can’t go back to work or else it would be markedly more difficult for your spouse. I guess it’s to say, lots of people choose not to have additional children because of fears like that and while it is not always easy, people can work and raise children, and better, they still turn out just fine. Kudos to you both for sacrificing your personal goals to spend time raising your child!
      - loxs 5y ago
        Yeah, and also COVID didn’t help either. We would definitely hire hourly babysitters, daycare etc, but with COVID it’s not that straightforward. Probably we will try something like that from now on, after we got our vaccines
- cle 5y ago
  As a counter example, my wife started a company when she was pregnant with our second child, and then raised millions of dollars in her first round when the child was a few months old. The company is still going strong and she is prepping to raise another round. And our child is a beautiful, happy toddler now.
  - r00fus 5y ago
    That's impressive - if you don't mind me asking - how much did you get involved to help out or were you 100% focused on work as well? If the latter, did you outsource (nanny) at all?
    - cle 5y ago
      I helped at the very beginning before she had a CTO, built an alpha version that we tested with customers (which led to a very different product). This was while she was pregnant, we worked nights after we put our kid to bed, and I took some time off of work to help too. Our kid is older and was in school at the time, so wasn't around the house during weekdays. Sometimes on Sunday my wife would watch our kid while I hacked away. This was pre-COVID. She found her CTO a couple of months after our second child was born and I haven't been involved since. Shortly after she found her CTO, they raised their first round. (More context: we did not have much money lying around, no family to donate money to us, nor did either of us have any experience starting a company.)
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    That’s very impressive. I can’t imagine how that’s doable based on my experience of wife’s breastfeeding and sleep schedules.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
The hypergrowth, VC-funded startup model virtually depends on founders and executives investing 100% of their time and energy into the company. With most startups trying to capture new markets, if you don't give 100% then your competitors will. Obviously any job that requires 80-hour works isn't going to be compatible with spending a lot of time with your kids. Like you said, there are plenty of other businesses and business models that don't have such onerous demands. They may not become the next unicorn and VC darling, but they leave room for a more normal life outside of work.
skrebbel 5y ago
> Is that model nearly incompatible with parenting? According to the author, pretty much. https://femfosec.com/start-a-startup-before-you-have-kids/ https://femfosec.com/start-a-startup-before-you-have-kids/

loxs 5y ago

I think they are quite incompatible. Me and my wife have a 1y4m old and we mostly don't do anything else nowadays. Other than that we have (had?) a startup that is now mostly on hold, except for some hacking that we do now and then when one of our mothers is around. We are very lucky that we are mostly financially independent from before our son was born, otherwise I would have to go work in an office and it would be a lot harder for my wife to look after the baby.

bladegash 5y ago
I really do not mean any offense by this - but how is a nearly one and a half year old requiring full-time attention from two people? I ask this as a single dad of two kids, one of them since they were < 1.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  Some children require more attention than others.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  One parent serves as redundancy for the other. I don’t know how you did it, but when we had just one baby/toddler, and no other kids or relatives to watch them, one adult is constantly watching the kid, and the other is taking care of household tasks. The person watching the kid looks like they have spare time, but it’s garbage time because your attention is diverted to the kid every couple minutes or less.
  - bladegash 5y ago
    That’s fair, but perhaps there are also some parents that pay far more attention to their children than they really require or is even healthy for them. I found this especially true with our first born, where once you have a second, you quickly realize you probably gave them just a tad too much attention than was necessary. Children have been raised in situations with single parents, ones where one or both parents work full time, etc. Day cares are somehow able to manage with one teacher to 10+ young children. Have we been failing at child rearing since, well, the beginning of time? I’m also not sure what garbage time with a < 2 year old would really be…they honestly don’t do much nor can they learn to do much at that age. Don’t get me wrong, plenty of meaningful ways to spend time with a child that way, I just don’t really know how you spend 8-12 hours a day giving focused attention to a 1 1/2 year old. But to each their own and not my place to judge anyone else’s parenting style.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      By garbage time, I mean I can't productively use the time I'm spending being responsible for the kid to do any involved task. I'm not saying I interact with the kid the whole time, but I have to keep an eye on the toddler to make sure they're not hurting themselves, or more likely, the toddler is pestering me to play with them. They play with their own toys and pots and pans for a few minutes, but it's not long before they see you on the laptop or whatever and want to get up in your lap. It's easier if there are other toddlers to play with and how a daycare can watch multiple toddlers with one adult.
      - bladegash 5y ago
        I hear you, 100% - it’s not easy no matter how you cut it. Infants and toddlers are a handful and they love playing with their parents! Mine are a bit older now (8 and 5), but I will be a bit sad when they no longer want my attention as much, so I’m trying to enjoy it while it lasts!
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        "but it's not long before they see you on the laptop or whatever and want to get up in your lap." And do you feel, you always have to obey to your childs wishes? Don't you think it is important to learn for them,to respect other peoples wishes, too? It is an ongoing struggle, of course, but after I started to pay more attention to my needs and be consequent about it, even if he goes hysterical - it became a lot easier for all of us. He can now (2 years) accept a no, if it is a real no.
- afavour 5y ago
  "we mostly don't do anything else nowadays" != "requiring full time attention" I still have downtime after having a kid, but I'm much less motivated to spend it on a side project because I'm that much more exhausted.
  - iso1210 5y ago
    OP seems to think that looking after a single child is more effort than available from two parents, one of whom has an office job
- iso1210 5y ago
  god knows how normal people cope!
  - loxs 5y ago
    We are wondering the same, especially during the pandemic
    - iso1210 5y ago
      I can see how having two full time jobs is tricky with say a 2-year-old, but one person full time looking after half a dozen kids and a house is not rocket science
- loxs 5y ago
  I didn’t say it’s impossible. We can optimize our time better, we can hire a nanny, she can stop breastfeeding at several months of age etc. But do we want to? It’s a personal/family decision and it’s definitely based on circumstances and necessities. Historically people have raised children in dire conditions. Still would I rather do a startup or have a regular job while raising babies? I don’t think I would ever go the startup route. Would I do a startup otherwise? Hell yeah. You may think differently, but my bubble definitely leans towards either having babies or startups, not both - I know some failed marriages and/or startups while trying both. Of course, there is also the rare success in both (I know one such).
  - bladegash 5y ago
    Oh, by all means if you’re able to choose to do so via the means and desire, I think it’s a great opportunity for not only your child, but also for you and your spouse. I was more surprised at what seemed like was a suggestion that you can’t go back to work or else it would be markedly more difficult for your spouse. I guess it’s to say, lots of people choose not to have additional children because of fears like that and while it is not always easy, people can work and raise children, and better, they still turn out just fine. Kudos to you both for sacrificing your personal goals to spend time raising your child!
    - loxs 5y ago
      Yeah, and also COVID didn’t help either. We would definitely hire hourly babysitters, daycare etc, but with COVID it’s not that straightforward. Probably we will try something like that from now on, after we got our vaccines
cle 5y ago
As a counter example, my wife started a company when she was pregnant with our second child, and then raised millions of dollars in her first round when the child was a few months old. The company is still going strong and she is prepping to raise another round. And our child is a beautiful, happy toddler now.
- r00fus 5y ago
  That's impressive - if you don't mind me asking - how much did you get involved to help out or were you 100% focused on work as well? If the latter, did you outsource (nanny) at all?
  - cle 5y ago
    I helped at the very beginning before she had a CTO, built an alpha version that we tested with customers (which led to a very different product). This was while she was pregnant, we worked nights after we put our kid to bed, and I took some time off of work to help too. Our kid is older and was in school at the time, so wasn't around the house during weekdays. Sometimes on Sunday my wife would watch our kid while I hacked away. This was pre-COVID. She found her CTO a couple of months after our second child was born and I haven't been involved since. Shortly after she found her CTO, they raised their first round. (More context: we did not have much money lying around, no family to donate money to us, nor did either of us have any experience starting a company.)
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  That’s very impressive. I can’t imagine how that’s doable based on my experience of wife’s breastfeeding and sleep schedules.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

The hypergrowth, VC-funded startup model virtually depends on founders and executives investing 100% of their time and energy into the company. With most startups trying to capture new markets, if you don't give 100% then your competitors will. Obviously any job that requires 80-hour works isn't going to be compatible with spending a lot of time with your kids. Like you said, there are plenty of other businesses and business models that don't have such onerous demands. They may not become the next unicorn and VC darling, but they leave room for a more normal life outside of work.

skrebbel 5y ago

> Is that model nearly incompatible with parenting? According to the author, pretty much. https://femfosec.com/start-a-startup-before-you-have-kids/ https://femfosec.com/start-a-startup-before-you-have-kids/