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HN hates crypto. As someone who missed out on huge gains by selling too early, I sympathize with the hatred and I believe that is the primary catalyst for it.

HN hates crypto. As someone who missed out on huge gains by selling too early, I sympathize with the hatred and I believe that is the primary catalyst for it. It can blind you to any positive aspects, simply because you feel slighted by it. The missed opportunity can really burn in your brain. I suspect most people are unable or unwilling to admit this and do all kinds of mental gymnastics to convince themselves it's all about the energy usage or control in China or whatever. The fact is, crypto has value and also has uses which are growing every day. No one discusses the energy usage of the current financial system and crypto is ramping up to disrupt a huge swath of it. Decentralized finance is going to kill entrenched middle men like escrow and payday loan companies just to name a simple few. Bitcoin converts computational energy into a digital store of that value which can be transferred anywhere, any time, in any amount, without the need for a trusted third-party, for a miniscule portion of that value. To assert this is a waste or that it doesn't have value is disingenuous. The fact that it is not centrally controlled is a huge game-changer and a paradigm shift. No entity can inflate it to worthlessness. No entity can seize your assets for any reason, including politics. There's no stopping crypto. The cat is out of the bag and the innovation will continue. It's decentralized nature prevents entrenched interests from regulating it out of existence and that is great for everyone.

gregjor 5y ago
> No entity can seize your assets… Wrong. https://www.investopedia.com/news/how-us-government-handles-its-stash-bitcoins/ https://www.investopedia.com/news/how-us-government-handles-... https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/united-states-files-civil-action-forfeit-cryptocurrency-valued-over-one-billion-us https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/united-states-files-civ... That’s just the USA. Even assuming your crypto wallet is secure and can’t be seized, as soon as you buy anything with it you face seizure. Even if you never convert to dollars and spend it the asset (your word) is subject to taxes denominated in fiat currency. Having your BTC taxed or trapped forever because you can’t spend them are essentially seizure or forfeiture.
- Mc_Big_G 5y ago
  Please explain the mechanism where I send someone bitcoin the government wants to seize and they successfully seize them. Do you think people in other countries care what the US government "seizes"?
  - gregjor 5y ago
    Bitcoin get stolen by hacking and fraud all the time — alarmingly often, I would say. So let’s imagine a world where state actors like the US government have resources equivalent to teenagers in the Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency_and_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency_and_crime The US government already seized a pile of Bitcoin that was stolen from Silk Road by apparently strong-arming or negotiating with the hacker who stole the BTC. I imagine the US government could do the same kind of hacking — a claim the FBI appeared to make in the case. If the government wants to seize your assets but can’t find them or get to them, they seize you. A bank robber who hides the cash and refuses to give it up can’t spend it from jail. Do people in other countries care what the US government seizes? Probably not. But governments and law enforcement agencies in other countries do. Look at how the US government strong-armed banks in almost every country to comply with US money laundering and tax avoidance laws. Try to open a bank account in a foreign country with a US passport and see if they care about US law (hint: they do). And the US government can seize foreign assets, you should have no trouble finding numerous examples of that actually happening. Supposing BTC exchanges and your wallet are 100% secure from even government hacking and seizure (all evidence to the contrary). If the government wants to seize those assets but can’t they will seize what they can. The minute you try to use your BTC for anything of value the government can seize the cash or goods you exchange BTC for. So maybe they never get the BTC, but those coins are useless to you in the same way the box of stolen cash buried in the woods is useless to the bank robber. Forget about leaving the country, the FBI canceled your passport.
    - Mc_Big_G 5y ago
      Sure, anyone can strong-arm you, including the government, but they'll generally have to go through the law to do it and it doesn't guarantee they'll succeed. If you have multi-sig set up, your benefactors could just take over and continue using it with impunity.
desertraven 5y ago
I see this getting downvoted quite a bit. I for one have upvoted it, as I too have noticed this toxicity toward decentralised finance, yet all other forms of decentralisation are celebrated here. I asked this question to better understand the resistance toward decentralised finance in this community, and so far this answer has been the most eye opening. So thank you!

gregjor 5y ago

> No entity can seize your assets… Wrong. https://www.investopedia.com/news/how-us-government-handles-its-stash-bitcoins/ https://www.investopedia.com/news/how-us-government-handles-... https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/united-states-files-civil-action-forfeit-cryptocurrency-valued-over-one-billion-us https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/united-states-files-civ... That’s just the USA. Even assuming your crypto wallet is secure and can’t be seized, as soon as you buy anything with it you face seizure. Even if you never convert to dollars and spend it the asset (your word) is subject to taxes denominated in fiat currency. Having your BTC taxed or trapped forever because you can’t spend them are essentially seizure or forfeiture.

Mc_Big_G 5y ago
Please explain the mechanism where I send someone bitcoin the government wants to seize and they successfully seize them. Do you think people in other countries care what the US government "seizes"?
- gregjor 5y ago
  Bitcoin get stolen by hacking and fraud all the time — alarmingly often, I would say. So let’s imagine a world where state actors like the US government have resources equivalent to teenagers in the Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency_and_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency_and_crime The US government already seized a pile of Bitcoin that was stolen from Silk Road by apparently strong-arming or negotiating with the hacker who stole the BTC. I imagine the US government could do the same kind of hacking — a claim the FBI appeared to make in the case. If the government wants to seize your assets but can’t find them or get to them, they seize you. A bank robber who hides the cash and refuses to give it up can’t spend it from jail. Do people in other countries care what the US government seizes? Probably not. But governments and law enforcement agencies in other countries do. Look at how the US government strong-armed banks in almost every country to comply with US money laundering and tax avoidance laws. Try to open a bank account in a foreign country with a US passport and see if they care about US law (hint: they do). And the US government can seize foreign assets, you should have no trouble finding numerous examples of that actually happening. Supposing BTC exchanges and your wallet are 100% secure from even government hacking and seizure (all evidence to the contrary). If the government wants to seize those assets but can’t they will seize what they can. The minute you try to use your BTC for anything of value the government can seize the cash or goods you exchange BTC for. So maybe they never get the BTC, but those coins are useless to you in the same way the box of stolen cash buried in the woods is useless to the bank robber. Forget about leaving the country, the FBI canceled your passport.
  - Mc_Big_G 5y ago
    Sure, anyone can strong-arm you, including the government, but they'll generally have to go through the law to do it and it doesn't guarantee they'll succeed. If you have multi-sig set up, your benefactors could just take over and continue using it with impunity.

desertraven 5y ago

I see this getting downvoted quite a bit. I for one have upvoted it, as I too have noticed this toxicity toward decentralised finance, yet all other forms of decentralisation are celebrated here. I asked this question to better understand the resistance toward decentralised finance in this community, and so far this answer has been the most eye opening. So thank you!