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It's less doing it at "scale" and more doing it as a monopoly/monopsony. Walmart has faced similar questions as well, but as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Wa

It's less doing it at "scale" and more doing it as a monopoly/monopsony. Walmart has faced similar questions as well, but as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is. Moreso in non US advanced countries that actually enforce the anti trust regulations in their laws.

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[deleted]
TameAntelope 5y ago
In what market is Amazon a monopoly?
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Being strict about the term, none. But "monopoly" has become a colloquialism for "big company (that I don't like)". Amazon has certainly generated enough bad faith and operates at a large enough scale to galvanize the anti-trust advocates
- kempbellt 5y ago
  They are popular, efficient, and usually affordable - if not cheaper than many competing outlets, but I do not see them as a monopoly by definition. Amazon has made it more convenient to use their services than their competition in many ways, but to my understanding, there are alternatives for just about everything they offer.
judge2020 5y ago
> Moreso in non US advanced countries that actually enforce the anti trust regulations in their laws. I think it's pretty disingenuous to say that the U.S. isn't enforcing its antitrust laws, the DOJ certainly opens investigations against these conglomerates, they just don't take them to court, so there might not be enough info for the DOJ to think there's a case. We don't know the full story for any of these cases and thus can't become sole arbitrators of whether or not something is an antitrust violation. The problem is probably that the DOJ doesn't like to bring cases against people in they they don't have hard evidence and a high likelihood to succeed in their prosecution - they have an average 92% success rate in the cases they bring against defendants[0]. I'm not one to say how to run the DOJ but chances are they could find more damning documents via court discovery (if they think they have enough of a case to get to discovery, at least). 0: https://www.justice.gov/doj/page/file/1249306/download#page=16 https://www.justice.gov/doj/page/file/1249306/download#page=... (page 16)
- elliekelly 5y ago
  > The problem is probably that the DOJ doesn't like to bring cases against people in they they don't have hard evidence and a high likelihood to succeed in their prosecution It has nothing to do with a lack of evidence and everything to do with not biting the hands that feed the boss's next campaign fund.
  - lupire 5y ago
    The DOJ, SEC, etc have an army of non-politically-appointed civil servants.
    - elliekelly 5y ago
      And yet not a single non-politically-appointed civil servant at the DOJ has the actual authority to bring an action against a big company like Amazon. When the DOJ brings a major antitrust case against a major American company there is no chance it didn't get the Attorney General's, and probably the President's, sign-off first. None. Zero.
- lupire 5y ago
  Potayto, potahtoh. Failed enforcement attempts are as ineffective as non-attempted enforcement.
  - theturtletalks 5y ago
    What's a law with no teeth?
    - Nasrudith 5y ago
      It has teeth but high standards. It is a bit more like Treason charges in the US. Technically a capital crime but often not worth trying as the precedents make it a high fence to clear. You are better off finding some anticompetitive business practice to cease. But anything about monopoly from the professional liars is just a bunch of table pounding as they lack laws and facts.
sokoloff 5y ago
> as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is. Walmart retail sales are significantly larger than Amazon's retail sales. For 2019 (chosen to avoid the disparate impact of pandemic), Walmart sold $514B while Amazon retail sold only $135B first-party and $200B third-party. Given the growth rates, Amazon will pass Walmart, but I don't think Walmart has "far less" power in retail than Amazon.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  This, and Walmart isn't just going to sit by and let Amazon win, why would they? I think folks on the Internet generally tend to assume Amazon is inevitable, but I doubt that's how Walmart thinks of it. Walmart and Amazon are both good for one another, and their competition helps us, except for when they basically non-compete over things like wages.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I agree about the internet/tech user part of that. If you asked me to give estimates of their relative size 5 years ago, I'd have probably said that Amazon was much bigger than Walmart, which would have been entirely wrong, of course. The pandemic was a huge boon for Amazon, but I don't think the battle for retail will have a clean, singular winner and consumers are endlessly demanding in terms of what it will take to remain the winner. Toys-R-Us and Sears learned that painful lesson within our adult lifetime. They won't be the last.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      From a little bit of retail corporate experience: people are used to seeing Amazon roll over competitors with under-invested supply chains. There aren't really any of those left. Amazon taking on Walmart, Home Depot, or (I assume) Target is going to look very different. Because all have been shoveling money into their supply chain efficiencies for the last 10 years.
- lupire 5y ago
  I think mail order and brick&mortar compete in some product segments, but are separate in others. For example, perhaps split off much of grocery and bulky cheap items as well as legally constrained products from WalMart's total (although Amazon is making inroads there).
castlecrasher2 5y ago
>but as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is I don't believe this to be the case. How is Amazon a monopoly, given the large number of online retailers that continue to be successful?

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[deleted]

TameAntelope 5y ago

In what market is Amazon a monopoly?

dahfizz 5y ago
Being strict about the term, none. But "monopoly" has become a colloquialism for "big company (that I don't like)". Amazon has certainly generated enough bad faith and operates at a large enough scale to galvanize the anti-trust advocates
kempbellt 5y ago
They are popular, efficient, and usually affordable - if not cheaper than many competing outlets, but I do not see them as a monopoly by definition. Amazon has made it more convenient to use their services than their competition in many ways, but to my understanding, there are alternatives for just about everything they offer.

judge2020 5y ago

> Moreso in non US advanced countries that actually enforce the anti trust regulations in their laws. I think it's pretty disingenuous to say that the U.S. isn't enforcing its antitrust laws, the DOJ certainly opens investigations against these conglomerates, they just don't take them to court, so there might not be enough info for the DOJ to think there's a case. We don't know the full story for any of these cases and thus can't become sole arbitrators of whether or not something is an antitrust violation. The problem is probably that the DOJ doesn't like to bring cases against people in they they don't have hard evidence and a high likelihood to succeed in their prosecution - they have an average 92% success rate in the cases they bring against defendants[0]. I'm not one to say how to run the DOJ but chances are they could find more damning documents via court discovery (if they think they have enough of a case to get to discovery, at least). 0: https://www.justice.gov/doj/page/file/1249306/download#page=16 https://www.justice.gov/doj/page/file/1249306/download#page=... (page 16)

elliekelly 5y ago
> The problem is probably that the DOJ doesn't like to bring cases against people in they they don't have hard evidence and a high likelihood to succeed in their prosecution It has nothing to do with a lack of evidence and everything to do with not biting the hands that feed the boss's next campaign fund.
- lupire 5y ago
  The DOJ, SEC, etc have an army of non-politically-appointed civil servants.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    And yet not a single non-politically-appointed civil servant at the DOJ has the actual authority to bring an action against a big company like Amazon. When the DOJ brings a major antitrust case against a major American company there is no chance it didn't get the Attorney General's, and probably the President's, sign-off first. None. Zero.
lupire 5y ago
Potayto, potahtoh. Failed enforcement attempts are as ineffective as non-attempted enforcement.
- theturtletalks 5y ago
  What's a law with no teeth?
  - Nasrudith 5y ago
    It has teeth but high standards. It is a bit more like Treason charges in the US. Technically a capital crime but often not worth trying as the precedents make it a high fence to clear. You are better off finding some anticompetitive business practice to cease. But anything about monopoly from the professional liars is just a bunch of table pounding as they lack laws and facts.

sokoloff 5y ago

> as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is. Walmart retail sales are significantly larger than Amazon's retail sales. For 2019 (chosen to avoid the disparate impact of pandemic), Walmart sold $514B while Amazon retail sold only $135B first-party and $200B third-party. Given the growth rates, Amazon will pass Walmart, but I don't think Walmart has "far less" power in retail than Amazon.

TameAntelope 5y ago
This, and Walmart isn't just going to sit by and let Amazon win, why would they? I think folks on the Internet generally tend to assume Amazon is inevitable, but I doubt that's how Walmart thinks of it. Walmart and Amazon are both good for one another, and their competition helps us, except for when they basically non-compete over things like wages.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I agree about the internet/tech user part of that. If you asked me to give estimates of their relative size 5 years ago, I'd have probably said that Amazon was much bigger than Walmart, which would have been entirely wrong, of course. The pandemic was a huge boon for Amazon, but I don't think the battle for retail will have a clean, singular winner and consumers are endlessly demanding in terms of what it will take to remain the winner. Toys-R-Us and Sears learned that painful lesson within our adult lifetime. They won't be the last.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    From a little bit of retail corporate experience: people are used to seeing Amazon roll over competitors with under-invested supply chains. There aren't really any of those left. Amazon taking on Walmart, Home Depot, or (I assume) Target is going to look very different. Because all have been shoveling money into their supply chain efficiencies for the last 10 years.
lupire 5y ago
I think mail order and brick&mortar compete in some product segments, but are separate in others. For example, perhaps split off much of grocery and bulky cheap items as well as legally constrained products from WalMart's total (although Amazon is making inroads there).

castlecrasher2 5y ago

>but as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is I don't believe this to be the case. How is Amazon a monopoly, given the large number of online retailers that continue to be successful?