5 ms·

If he had listened to experts, Tesla's little driver assist would not be called 'autopilot' and ending in 4 hour long lithium fueled human barbecues.

by abxytg 5y ago

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Less people have died from Autopilot than eating lettuce contaminated with E. coli over a decade. Everyone still eats lettuce. Stupid people doing stupid things on Autopilot (watching a film [Florida], jumping in the back seat [Texas]) would’ve died doing stupid things eventually. Can’t blame Autopilot for when the monkey tries to defeat the safety system. No system is foolproof. That doesn’t make Musk any less of a liar (with his successes amplifying the hopium), but let’s not pretend people aren’t culpable for their failings. The nuance is important.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  I don't think "Well you know, these people are idiots and they'd have killed themselves anyway" is going to win any hearts and minds. Or persuade a jury, if it ever comes to that. No system is foolproof. But systems that encourage or tolerate foolish and dangerous behaviour can't be considered well-designed.
- Arainach 5y ago
  You can blame the system when it misleads its users. To this day, the Model S configurator calls the system "Autopilot" and uses "Full Self-Driving Capability", "Navigate on Autopilot", and "Full Self-Driving Computer" as bullet points of things it can currently do. https://i.imgur.com/3cQRMwZ.png https://i.imgur.com/3cQRMwZ.png https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview The fine print isn't a justification when you're saying as loud as possible that this is a magic machine that does everything. Describing it as such is misleading. For comparison, here is how Cadillac describes Super Cruise, a comparably-rated driver assist suite: "Super Cruise" drive assistance feature. That's it. That's all you get when picking out the car. It frames it as an assistance, not a replacement or autopilot. If you go into details, you get "A driver assistance feature that allows hands-free driving under compatible highway driving conditions" https://www.cadillac.com/sedans/ct5/build-and-price/packages https://www.cadillac.com/sedans/ct5/build-and-price/packages If you search out their detailed marketing materials, the message is consistent: "Hands off the wheel. Eyes on the road." "Adaptive cruise control". "Stay centered". "Lane change on demand". Note that none of these promise that the computer takes over everything. The closest they come is "the first true hands-free driving-assistance", and that word assistance is absolutely key in framing this as not a replacement for all driving. https://www.cadillac.com/world-of-cadillac/innovation/super-cruise https://www.cadillac.com/world-of-cadillac/innovation/super-...
- gamblor956 5y ago
  Less people have died from Autopilot than eating lettuce contaminated with E. coli over a decade. Everyone still eats lettuce. OTOH, more people have dried as a result of Autopilot/FSD failures than the entire rest of the self-driving vehicle industry combined. And the worst part is, Tesla doesn't even know what caused the failures, since at least one of those deaths were caused by regressions to Autopilot (for example, the Bay Area incident where the car swerved into the divider).
xedeon 5y ago
> Tesla's little driver assist would not be called 'autopilot' and ending in 4 hour long lithium fueled human barbecues The fire did NOT last "four hours". It was put out in 2-3 minutes. “With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew out way of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants,” Source (from the Fire Chief): https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/woodlands/article/Woodlands-fire-chief-says-Tesla-fire-example-of-16113029.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/woodlands/arti...
- abxytg 5y ago
  Surely you don't think this technicality is compelling. My original comment contained hyperbole.
  - xedeon 5y ago
    Hyperbole or not, it sounds like you're now backpedaling. Moreover, it's also the same (fire lasted 3-4 hours) false narrative that many media outlets ran. Even though there was never an official report or account of the firefighting measures taken.

If he had listened to experts, Tesla's little driver assist would not be called 'autopilot' and ending in 4 hour long lithium fueled human barbecues.

by abxytg 5y ago

If he had listened to experts, Tesla's little driver assist would not be called 'autopilot' and ending in 4 hour long lithium fueled human barbecues.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

Less people have died from Autopilot than eating lettuce contaminated with E. coli over a decade. Everyone still eats lettuce. Stupid people doing stupid things on Autopilot (watching a film [Florida], jumping in the back seat [Texas]) would’ve died doing stupid things eventually. Can’t blame Autopilot for when the monkey tries to defeat the safety system. No system is foolproof. That doesn’t make Musk any less of a liar (with his successes amplifying the hopium), but let’s not pretend people aren’t culpable for their failings. The nuance is important.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
I don't think "Well you know, these people are idiots and they'd have killed themselves anyway" is going to win any hearts and minds. Or persuade a jury, if it ever comes to that. No system is foolproof. But systems that encourage or tolerate foolish and dangerous behaviour can't be considered well-designed.
Arainach 5y ago
You can blame the system when it misleads its users. To this day, the Model S configurator calls the system "Autopilot" and uses "Full Self-Driving Capability", "Navigate on Autopilot", and "Full Self-Driving Computer" as bullet points of things it can currently do. https://i.imgur.com/3cQRMwZ.png https://i.imgur.com/3cQRMwZ.png https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview The fine print isn't a justification when you're saying as loud as possible that this is a magic machine that does everything. Describing it as such is misleading. For comparison, here is how Cadillac describes Super Cruise, a comparably-rated driver assist suite: "Super Cruise" drive assistance feature. That's it. That's all you get when picking out the car. It frames it as an assistance, not a replacement or autopilot. If you go into details, you get "A driver assistance feature that allows hands-free driving under compatible highway driving conditions" https://www.cadillac.com/sedans/ct5/build-and-price/packages https://www.cadillac.com/sedans/ct5/build-and-price/packages If you search out their detailed marketing materials, the message is consistent: "Hands off the wheel. Eyes on the road." "Adaptive cruise control". "Stay centered". "Lane change on demand". Note that none of these promise that the computer takes over everything. The closest they come is "the first true hands-free driving-assistance", and that word assistance is absolutely key in framing this as not a replacement for all driving. https://www.cadillac.com/world-of-cadillac/innovation/super-cruise https://www.cadillac.com/world-of-cadillac/innovation/super-...
gamblor956 5y ago
Less people have died from Autopilot than eating lettuce contaminated with E. coli over a decade. Everyone still eats lettuce. OTOH, more people have dried as a result of Autopilot/FSD failures than the entire rest of the self-driving vehicle industry combined. And the worst part is, Tesla doesn't even know what caused the failures, since at least one of those deaths were caused by regressions to Autopilot (for example, the Bay Area incident where the car swerved into the divider).

xedeon 5y ago

> Tesla's little driver assist would not be called 'autopilot' and ending in 4 hour long lithium fueled human barbecues The fire did NOT last "four hours". It was put out in 2-3 minutes. “With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew out way of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants,” Source (from the Fire Chief): https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/woodlands/article/Woodlands-fire-chief-says-Tesla-fire-example-of-16113029.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/woodlands/arti...

abxytg 5y ago
Surely you don't think this technicality is compelling. My original comment contained hyperbole.
- xedeon 5y ago
  Hyperbole or not, it sounds like you're now backpedaling. Moreover, it's also the same (fire lasted 3-4 hours) false narrative that many media outlets ran. Even though there was never an official report or account of the firefighting measures taken.