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> now I think higher-dimensional beings exist." I think he said something more like I am now open to the possibility that they might be real. But ... we know

> now I think higher-dimensional beings exist." I think he said something more like I am now open to the possibility that they might be real. But ... we know there are people who are schizophrenic, who switch from one personality to another. Which of them is "real"? They probably all are. But that does not mean they exist anywhere outside of one's head. If you can experience another you, then it seems not implausible that you would also experience "God" inside your head. It is fun to think that there might be higher-dimensional conscious beings around us or even within us. But that's all it is, fun. There doesn't seem to be any practical implications of whether there are or not. Another part of the article considers (quite materialistically) the possibility that "God" is something society creates in our heads. I think Sigmund Freud called that the "Super Ego". It is what makes us better survive as a species. It causes us to co-operate rather than just selfishly abuse others as much as we can. It is clear how such a function could evolve by evolution. We see it in all species, they don't spend their energy trying to kill other individuals of the same species. It's the Selfish Gene.

hutzlibu 6y ago
"It is fun to think that there might be higher-dimensional conscious beings around us or even within us. But that's all it is, fun. There doesn't seem to be any practical implications of whether there are or not." Well, it is fun, when you assume those spirits to be friendly. But if they exist and they are not allways friendly - then there would be very practical implications because of that. Is your bad luck random, or did you anger some god or spirit? Then you would benefit from doing things to calm them. Many, many people believe that. But yes, the point is, why assume their existence in the first place, when science so far is very good at creating a working model of the universe. But since we do not have a complete model at all and maybe never will, I would not assume it is proven that billions of people on this earth who believe in magic etc. are all wrong. Because if you do that - then you would never find hints that they do exist. There is a theory in the spiritul world, that there is a mind censor in ourself, that is blocking all information on those magic things as we would not be able to focus on the tasks at hand, if we would be distracted by ghosts all the time. So main technics there, are how to control your inner censor and open your eyes to see and do much more. Well, what I can say for certain, is that the various magic traditions developed very powerful psychological technics to achieve various things with your mind. Whether there is real magic one has to see and decide for themself.
- bckr 6y ago
  > the various magic traditions developed very powerful psychological technics to achieve various things with your mind This alone is reason enough to study/practice "magical" concepts, which can range from CBT to various forms of meditation and cue spooky sounds sorcery. Having a hammer with which you can form your own mind is, like, extremely important. The spookier stuff you can just think of as either A) fun, existential decorations or B) embarrassing accretions to otherwise useful ways of thinking. Or heaven forbid you fall into the C) camp where you start to believe you're in some kind of spirit war for the aeons.
splithalf 6y ago
“ doesn't seem to be any practical implications of whether there are or not.” On one hand everything is material and deterministic (whether you confess to it or not — eg Dan dennet), on the other hand you have the possibility of free will, of human nobility and virtue. Selfish genes sounds like doublespeak to me. I’m sure it’s true to some extent, but I’m confident that it’s not the whole Truth.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  Then what is The Whole Truth? What piece is missing? It's the Russell's Teapot thing. It COULD be out there, and there COULD be something more. But the Selfish Gene -- Evolution -- is reasonably easy to demonstrate. Different verities of viruses, like new strains of COVID, come to mind...
  - splithalf 6y ago
    I don’t think any human mind can know the whole truth in the typical sense of knowing. My view is one that allows for mystery and features an unknowable or imperfectly knowable Truth. I’m inclined towards a more humble assessment of human progress, seeing most knowledge as imperfect. Science alone points me towards full determinism, but the reality of experience tells me free will exists. There must be something other than just genes and neurons and randomness. If you believe in free will and accept materialistic reductionist explanations, then it is on you to say what that “something other” is. I’m all ears but if dennet can’t convince me then you probably won’t either. For me, my “something other” is faith, which is recursive is an appealing way.
bckr 6y ago
> we know there are people who are schizophrenic, who switch from one personality to another (schizophrenia) != (dissociative identity disorder == multiple personality disorder) even though etymology(schizophrenia) == "split mind"
- galaxyLogic 6y ago
  Sorry for my ignorance. Is there a simple way to tell the difference? Is dissociative identity disorder a subset of schizophrenia?
  - bckr 6y ago
    No problem. > Is dissociative identity disorder a subset of schizophrenia? No. > Is there a simple way to tell the difference? Yes. DID is what is colloquially referred to as having a split personality or multiple personalities. The easiest way to remember this is that a person with DID has multiple, alternating streams of experience and affect that do not share memories or volition. Schizophrenia is more like what we might call "madness". Believing wildly untrue ideas, being out of touch with reality, having hallucinations,... these are some of the symptoms of schizophrenia. So they're not really related. I guess some folks with DID could have a personality who is also schizophrenic, and that would make for a difficult diagnosis and treatment, I'm sure.
neonological 6y ago
Do not mistake an open mind for an unbiased mind. A higher dimensional being is equivalent to the cosmic hippo in a tutu, prancing across the stars. One concept sounds absurd but both concepts have in fact the same level of absurdity. The evidence of god, or higher dimensional beings is equivalent to the amount of evidence that exists for the cosmic hippo. Both concepts do not have zero probability of existing but are you really open minded by being agnostic and considering the possibility of the cosmic hippo existing? I just made up the cosmic hippo, like just now. Zero material evidence exist for either concept. But we lend more credit to profound descriptions of god. This is human bias at work. Higher dimensional is a complicated word that is just as absurd as hippo in a tutu. Agnosticism is not open mindedness it is closed mindedness because the logic behind agnosticism supports consideration of the cosmic hippo as a valid argument for existence. The key insight is that all descriptions of god are equivalent in absurdity to the cosmic hippo and therefore agnosticism is an an absurd philosophy. We do not know what created the universe. But because virtually zero evidence exists or hints at what created the universe I can safely say any guess you come up with is completely and utterly wrong. It's like guessing a number between 1 and 9999 trillion trillion. I can safely say if any human on earth made a guess about what this number is... They'd be wrong.
- dang 6y ago
  This crosses into religious flamewar. We're trying to avoid that here, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - neonological 6y ago
    The article itself is about a man validating the truth behind his drug induced spiritual experience of god. I can't use science to disagree with that opinion because it's religious flame war? Then logically the article itself is instigating religious flame war.... He argues his side I argue mine. I don't think your being impartial here. His post attacks my beliefs and I attack his in return who is instigating war here? Your saying he can attack my belief but I can't argue for mine. Are you saying that if an article shows up on HN supporting logic and science and atheism no religious person can argue against it or offer their opinion?
serverholic 6y ago
> I think he said something more like I am now open to the possibility that they might be real. People use the word 'but' all the time to justify beliefs that they worry others will view negatively. "I think Donald Trump is an asshole but..." "I'm not racist but..." "I'm a rational person but..." I think, deep down, he believes the god stuff but is trying to justify it and soften it so that we don't think he's crazy.
- galaxyLogic 6y ago
  It's kind of funny (and entertaining) thinking about what another person we have never met might be thinking. But let's go with it. I don't think he believes the God stuff, but he wants to. He doesn't want to let go of that possibility and I don't blame him for that. I believe that people believe mostly what they want to believe, by which I mean that they don't really believe it (since they only want to believe) but that they pretend, tell themselves that they do, believe.
  - pmoncada 6y ago
    Hey I'm the author and I can jump into what I actually believe: Basically, I'm still working on integrating my experience into a rational worldview. I definitely had the experience of meeting entities and speaking to them, and that's hard to reconcile with our everyday "sober" experience of reality. There are tons of testimonies of people reporting similar things, so that makes me feel less alone in the potential delusion of thinking it's all "real." Whether it's real or not actually doesn't matter so much to me. The experience is the same no matter if it's coming from my brain or from elsewhere. The only thing that matters is how I live my life as a result after having these experiences. I've made peace with not having all the answers. If you asked me "Do I believe in God?" I'd say yes. But my definition of God is probably very different from the usual one. Since I now think of God as being an emergent property of communities of people coming together and forming a social contract through shared stories, morals, and goals. Where they are trying to make sense of a shared mystery of life and capture the ineffable transcendental experience into stories and myths. Personifying that into a "real" thing is useful for some, and experiencing that personification is a very interesting phenomena that I don't really understand, yet I've had the experience myself. Anyways, I hope that's helpful :)

hutzlibu 6y ago

"It is fun to think that there might be higher-dimensional conscious beings around us or even within us. But that's all it is, fun. There doesn't seem to be any practical implications of whether there are or not." Well, it is fun, when you assume those spirits to be friendly. But if they exist and they are not allways friendly - then there would be very practical implications because of that. Is your bad luck random, or did you anger some god or spirit? Then you would benefit from doing things to calm them. Many, many people believe that. But yes, the point is, why assume their existence in the first place, when science so far is very good at creating a working model of the universe. But since we do not have a complete model at all and maybe never will, I would not assume it is proven that billions of people on this earth who believe in magic etc. are all wrong. Because if you do that - then you would never find hints that they do exist. There is a theory in the spiritul world, that there is a mind censor in ourself, that is blocking all information on those magic things as we would not be able to focus on the tasks at hand, if we would be distracted by ghosts all the time. So main technics there, are how to control your inner censor and open your eyes to see and do much more. Well, what I can say for certain, is that the various magic traditions developed very powerful psychological technics to achieve various things with your mind. Whether there is real magic one has to see and decide for themself.

bckr 6y ago
> the various magic traditions developed very powerful psychological technics to achieve various things with your mind This alone is reason enough to study/practice "magical" concepts, which can range from CBT to various forms of meditation and cue spooky sounds sorcery. Having a hammer with which you can form your own mind is, like, extremely important. The spookier stuff you can just think of as either A) fun, existential decorations or B) embarrassing accretions to otherwise useful ways of thinking. Or heaven forbid you fall into the C) camp where you start to believe you're in some kind of spirit war for the aeons.

splithalf 6y ago

“ doesn't seem to be any practical implications of whether there are or not.” On one hand everything is material and deterministic (whether you confess to it or not — eg Dan dennet), on the other hand you have the possibility of free will, of human nobility and virtue. Selfish genes sounds like doublespeak to me. I’m sure it’s true to some extent, but I’m confident that it’s not the whole Truth.

blaser-waffle 6y ago
Then what is The Whole Truth? What piece is missing? It's the Russell's Teapot thing. It COULD be out there, and there COULD be something more. But the Selfish Gene -- Evolution -- is reasonably easy to demonstrate. Different verities of viruses, like new strains of COVID, come to mind...
- splithalf 6y ago
  I don’t think any human mind can know the whole truth in the typical sense of knowing. My view is one that allows for mystery and features an unknowable or imperfectly knowable Truth. I’m inclined towards a more humble assessment of human progress, seeing most knowledge as imperfect. Science alone points me towards full determinism, but the reality of experience tells me free will exists. There must be something other than just genes and neurons and randomness. If you believe in free will and accept materialistic reductionist explanations, then it is on you to say what that “something other” is. I’m all ears but if dennet can’t convince me then you probably won’t either. For me, my “something other” is faith, which is recursive is an appealing way.

bckr 6y ago

> we know there are people who are schizophrenic, who switch from one personality to another (schizophrenia) != (dissociative identity disorder == multiple personality disorder) even though etymology(schizophrenia) == "split mind"

galaxyLogic 6y ago
Sorry for my ignorance. Is there a simple way to tell the difference? Is dissociative identity disorder a subset of schizophrenia?
- bckr 6y ago
  No problem. > Is dissociative identity disorder a subset of schizophrenia? No. > Is there a simple way to tell the difference? Yes. DID is what is colloquially referred to as having a split personality or multiple personalities. The easiest way to remember this is that a person with DID has multiple, alternating streams of experience and affect that do not share memories or volition. Schizophrenia is more like what we might call "madness". Believing wildly untrue ideas, being out of touch with reality, having hallucinations,... these are some of the symptoms of schizophrenia. So they're not really related. I guess some folks with DID could have a personality who is also schizophrenic, and that would make for a difficult diagnosis and treatment, I'm sure.

neonological 6y ago

Do not mistake an open mind for an unbiased mind. A higher dimensional being is equivalent to the cosmic hippo in a tutu, prancing across the stars. One concept sounds absurd but both concepts have in fact the same level of absurdity. The evidence of god, or higher dimensional beings is equivalent to the amount of evidence that exists for the cosmic hippo. Both concepts do not have zero probability of existing but are you really open minded by being agnostic and considering the possibility of the cosmic hippo existing? I just made up the cosmic hippo, like just now. Zero material evidence exist for either concept. But we lend more credit to profound descriptions of god. This is human bias at work. Higher dimensional is a complicated word that is just as absurd as hippo in a tutu. Agnosticism is not open mindedness it is closed mindedness because the logic behind agnosticism supports consideration of the cosmic hippo as a valid argument for existence. The key insight is that all descriptions of god are equivalent in absurdity to the cosmic hippo and therefore agnosticism is an an absurd philosophy. We do not know what created the universe. But because virtually zero evidence exists or hints at what created the universe I can safely say any guess you come up with is completely and utterly wrong. It's like guessing a number between 1 and 9999 trillion trillion. I can safely say if any human on earth made a guess about what this number is... They'd be wrong.

dang 6y ago
This crosses into religious flamewar. We're trying to avoid that here, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- neonological 6y ago
  The article itself is about a man validating the truth behind his drug induced spiritual experience of god. I can't use science to disagree with that opinion because it's religious flame war? Then logically the article itself is instigating religious flame war.... He argues his side I argue mine. I don't think your being impartial here. His post attacks my beliefs and I attack his in return who is instigating war here? Your saying he can attack my belief but I can't argue for mine. Are you saying that if an article shows up on HN supporting logic and science and atheism no religious person can argue against it or offer their opinion?

serverholic 6y ago

> I think he said something more like I am now open to the possibility that they might be real. People use the word 'but' all the time to justify beliefs that they worry others will view negatively. "I think Donald Trump is an asshole but..." "I'm not racist but..." "I'm a rational person but..." I think, deep down, he believes the god stuff but is trying to justify it and soften it so that we don't think he's crazy.

galaxyLogic 6y ago
It's kind of funny (and entertaining) thinking about what another person we have never met might be thinking. But let's go with it. I don't think he believes the God stuff, but he wants to. He doesn't want to let go of that possibility and I don't blame him for that. I believe that people believe mostly what they want to believe, by which I mean that they don't really believe it (since they only want to believe) but that they pretend, tell themselves that they do, believe.
- pmoncada 6y ago
  Hey I'm the author and I can jump into what I actually believe: Basically, I'm still working on integrating my experience into a rational worldview. I definitely had the experience of meeting entities and speaking to them, and that's hard to reconcile with our everyday "sober" experience of reality. There are tons of testimonies of people reporting similar things, so that makes me feel less alone in the potential delusion of thinking it's all "real." Whether it's real or not actually doesn't matter so much to me. The experience is the same no matter if it's coming from my brain or from elsewhere. The only thing that matters is how I live my life as a result after having these experiences. I've made peace with not having all the answers. If you asked me "Do I believe in God?" I'd say yes. But my definition of God is probably very different from the usual one. Since I now think of God as being an emergent property of communities of people coming together and forming a social contract through shared stories, morals, and goals. Where they are trying to make sense of a shared mystery of life and capture the ineffable transcendental experience into stories and myths. Personifying that into a "real" thing is useful for some, and experiencing that personification is a very interesting phenomena that I don't really understand, yet I've had the experience myself. Anyways, I hope that's helpful :)