5 ms·

Don't forget asbestos, which despite all the hubbub never got banned. It's used in all kinds of stuff and just one or two microfibers of it in your lungs and yo

Don't forget asbestos, which despite all the hubbub never got banned. It's used in all kinds of stuff and just one or two microfibers of it in your lungs and your fate of a slow painful death is sealed.

the-dude 5y ago
> just one or two microfibers of it in your lungs and your fate of a slow painful death is sealed. Hell of a claim. Sources?
- dccoolgai 5y ago
  >The one asbestos disease that is different is mesothelioma. Very small amounts of asbestos can give you mesothelioma. Asbestos workers' families have gotten mesothelioma from the dust the workers brought home on their clothes. https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbestos/homeowner/heffects.html https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbes...
  - the-dude 5y ago
    The magic word there is of course can. Although both asbestos and mesothelioma are very nasty, I fail to see evidence for your claim that your faith is sealed.
  - shawnz 5y ago
    https://thorax.bmj.com/content/58/9/809#xref-ref-7-1 https://thorax.bmj.com/content/58/9/809#xref-ref-7-1 > Necroscopic studies have led to the determination of asbestos fibre load and the demonstration of a dose related effect, thus making improbable the argument that mesothelioma only requires one fibre of asbestos for initiation of the malignancy. Furthermore, asbestos exposure in urban settings is very common: https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/10.1164/arrd.1980.122.5.669 https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/10.1164/arrd.1980.122.5.669 > We isolated uncoated asbestos fibers from the lungs of 21 urban dwellers who had fewer than 100 asbestos bodies/gram of lung, a level shown previously to be associated with environmental rather than occupational exposure to asbestos
    - dccoolgai 5y ago
      Considering that Mesothelioma can take 30+ years to manifest, that info about exposure being common does _not_ improve my day. The truth is, it's hard to unravel: especially with 100s of billions of dollars on the line in liability, there is probably some "sugar science" going on - maybe on both sides even. What I _do_ know is that: 1. It's harmful af (regardless of "how much" the research says, the fact is: harmful af). 2. Everyone thinks it's banned, but it's not. 3. Some people make billions of dollars continuing to use it (enabled by #2) 4. I'm not in the set of people described in #3 I'd like it to be banned.
      - shawnz 5y ago
        I certainly agree with all that. It should be banned.
- Someone 5y ago
  https://www.britsafe.org/publications/safety-management-magazine/safety-management-magazine/2014/asbestos-testing-up-in-the-air/ https://www.britsafe.org/publications/safety-management-maga...: * In July 1984 the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) published an update to guidance note EH10, Asbestos – Control Limits, measurement of airborne dust concentrations and the assessment of control measures, which introduced a limit value of 0.01 fibre/ml.* That’s 100 fibers/liter, so at least that with every breath you take. Because of that, I think that, if that claim is true, it only is if you wouldn’t die of something else first.
  - stordoff 5y ago
    The stance of the HSE in 2010 is worth mentioning: > There is a lack of scientific consensus as to whether there exists a threshold of exposure to asbestos below which a person is at zero risk of developing mesothelioma. However, there is evidence from epidemiological studies of asbestos exposed groups that any threshold for mesothelioma must be at a very low level - and it is fairly widely agreed that if a threshold does exists then it cannot currently be quantified. For practical purposes HSE does not assume that such a threshold exists. https://web.archive.org/web/20111030182149/http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causdis/asbfaq.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20111030182149/http://www.hse.go...
Phurist 5y ago
AFAIK inhaling in some fibers usually shows an effect after around 20 years. If you breathed in a lot of them (working with asbestos without protection for a long period), then you will most probably start experiencing some breathing problems first of all. Absestosis I think is the correct term ? Actual cancer would depend on a lot of different additional factors.
- dccoolgai 5y ago
  Mesothelioma is a particularly nasty form of lung cancer. Asbestosis is dose-related, but mesothelioma is not. Details: https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbestos/homeowner/heffects.html https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbes...
mschuster91 5y ago
> Don't forget asbestos, which despite all the hubbub never got banned. I was a bit astonished by that claim since I had thought that the entire developed world has banned asbestos usage for decades... turns out that while the US does have bans on certain products, there is no federal ban on the stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos_and_the_law_(United_States)#Regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos_and_the_law_(United_S...). Jesus. WTF?
- nicolas_t 5y ago
  In a similar vein, Japan only stopped using Asbestos in construction materials in 2005. So anyone buying an old house in Japan is pretty much guaranteed to have Asbestos...
  - ComputerGuru 5y ago
    Good luck finding an old house in Japan!
    - nicolas_t 5y ago
      I mean old by the definition of Japan. As in > 30 years old :)
- colechristensen 5y ago
  Asbestos is an almost magical material and if handled carefully (say similar levels that medical workers have to take for covid, surgeries, microbiology, etc) there isn’t much risk. It shouldn’t be in common construction or household materials but i’m not too worried about specialized industrial applications.
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    No, there is nothing magical about asbestos. There is no application for it that can't be performed just as well by safer synthetic mineral fibers. The only thing special about asbestos is its extremely low cost.
agumonkey 5y ago
stupid warning for the vintage crowd, lots of device had asbestos in the materials (among other toxic substances now banned), be careful
ornornor 5y ago
The town of asbestos in Quebec (which they renamed last year because it was too shameful) had one of the largest (the largest?) asbestos mine in the world. It closed in 2011 with plans from the government to inject close to 60 million $ to reopen it... it didn’t go through because the party that promised it lost the elections to the party that promised NOT to do it, but note that the question of whether anyone would still buy asbestos never entered into consideration. So yeah all this asbestos must be going somewhere if it’s still profitable to mine.

the-dude 5y ago

> just one or two microfibers of it in your lungs and your fate of a slow painful death is sealed. Hell of a claim. Sources?

dccoolgai 5y ago
>The one asbestos disease that is different is mesothelioma. Very small amounts of asbestos can give you mesothelioma. Asbestos workers' families have gotten mesothelioma from the dust the workers brought home on their clothes. https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbestos/homeowner/heffects.html https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbes...
- the-dude 5y ago
  The magic word there is of course can. Although both asbestos and mesothelioma are very nasty, I fail to see evidence for your claim that your faith is sealed.
- shawnz 5y ago
  https://thorax.bmj.com/content/58/9/809#xref-ref-7-1 https://thorax.bmj.com/content/58/9/809#xref-ref-7-1 > Necroscopic studies have led to the determination of asbestos fibre load and the demonstration of a dose related effect, thus making improbable the argument that mesothelioma only requires one fibre of asbestos for initiation of the malignancy. Furthermore, asbestos exposure in urban settings is very common: https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/10.1164/arrd.1980.122.5.669 https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/10.1164/arrd.1980.122.5.669 > We isolated uncoated asbestos fibers from the lungs of 21 urban dwellers who had fewer than 100 asbestos bodies/gram of lung, a level shown previously to be associated with environmental rather than occupational exposure to asbestos
  - dccoolgai 5y ago
    Considering that Mesothelioma can take 30+ years to manifest, that info about exposure being common does _not_ improve my day. The truth is, it's hard to unravel: especially with 100s of billions of dollars on the line in liability, there is probably some "sugar science" going on - maybe on both sides even. What I _do_ know is that: 1. It's harmful af (regardless of "how much" the research says, the fact is: harmful af). 2. Everyone thinks it's banned, but it's not. 3. Some people make billions of dollars continuing to use it (enabled by #2) 4. I'm not in the set of people described in #3 I'd like it to be banned.
    - shawnz 5y ago
      I certainly agree with all that. It should be banned.
Someone 5y ago
https://www.britsafe.org/publications/safety-management-magazine/safety-management-magazine/2014/asbestos-testing-up-in-the-air/ https://www.britsafe.org/publications/safety-management-maga...: * In July 1984 the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) published an update to guidance note EH10, Asbestos – Control Limits, measurement of airborne dust concentrations and the assessment of control measures, which introduced a limit value of 0.01 fibre/ml.* That’s 100 fibers/liter, so at least that with every breath you take. Because of that, I think that, if that claim is true, it only is if you wouldn’t die of something else first.
- stordoff 5y ago
  The stance of the HSE in 2010 is worth mentioning: > There is a lack of scientific consensus as to whether there exists a threshold of exposure to asbestos below which a person is at zero risk of developing mesothelioma. However, there is evidence from epidemiological studies of asbestos exposed groups that any threshold for mesothelioma must be at a very low level - and it is fairly widely agreed that if a threshold does exists then it cannot currently be quantified. For practical purposes HSE does not assume that such a threshold exists. https://web.archive.org/web/20111030182149/http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causdis/asbfaq.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20111030182149/http://www.hse.go...

Phurist 5y ago

AFAIK inhaling in some fibers usually shows an effect after around 20 years. If you breathed in a lot of them (working with asbestos without protection for a long period), then you will most probably start experiencing some breathing problems first of all. Absestosis I think is the correct term ? Actual cancer would depend on a lot of different additional factors.

dccoolgai 5y ago
Mesothelioma is a particularly nasty form of lung cancer. Asbestosis is dose-related, but mesothelioma is not. Details: https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbestos/homeowner/heffects.html https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbes...

mschuster91 5y ago

> Don't forget asbestos, which despite all the hubbub never got banned. I was a bit astonished by that claim since I had thought that the entire developed world has banned asbestos usage for decades... turns out that while the US does have bans on certain products, there is no federal ban on the stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos_and_the_law_(United_States)#Regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos_and_the_law_(United_S...). Jesus. WTF?

nicolas_t 5y ago
In a similar vein, Japan only stopped using Asbestos in construction materials in 2005. So anyone buying an old house in Japan is pretty much guaranteed to have Asbestos...
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  Good luck finding an old house in Japan!
  - nicolas_t 5y ago
    I mean old by the definition of Japan. As in > 30 years old :)
colechristensen 5y ago
Asbestos is an almost magical material and if handled carefully (say similar levels that medical workers have to take for covid, surgeries, microbiology, etc) there isn’t much risk. It shouldn’t be in common construction or household materials but i’m not too worried about specialized industrial applications.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  No, there is nothing magical about asbestos. There is no application for it that can't be performed just as well by safer synthetic mineral fibers. The only thing special about asbestos is its extremely low cost.

agumonkey 5y ago

stupid warning for the vintage crowd, lots of device had asbestos in the materials (among other toxic substances now banned), be careful

ornornor 5y ago

The town of asbestos in Quebec (which they renamed last year because it was too shameful) had one of the largest (the largest?) asbestos mine in the world. It closed in 2011 with plans from the government to inject close to 60 million $ to reopen it... it didn’t go through because the party that promised it lost the elections to the party that promised NOT to do it, but note that the question of whether anyone would still buy asbestos never entered into consideration. So yeah all this asbestos must be going somewhere if it’s still profitable to mine.