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Amazon the marketplace isn’t terribly innovative. It’s a marketplace supported by fantastic logistics, and most of it is backed by USPS anyways. There’s only so

Amazon the marketplace isn’t terribly innovative. It’s a marketplace supported by fantastic logistics, and most of it is backed by USPS anyways. There’s only so much you can do to remove the pains from buyers, sounds like we’re there.

smhost 5y ago
"Innovation" refers to practices like staying in the red for a decade and bypassing antitrust laws by owning (rather than monopolizing) markets. It has little to do with technological innovation.
- andrepd 5y ago
  Precisely. Much of the "innovations" and "efficiencies" touted (by Amazon and by many other players) are actually not any material/physical/technical improvements, but financial games, buying competitors, operating at a loss, regulatory evasion, monopolisation, etc.
  - smhost 5y ago
    I mean, business/financial innovation is a legitimate kind of innovation. I'm not harping on Amazon for that. I just think that discussions about "loss of innovation" smuggle in some irrational fears about loss of technology when there are no real reasons to.
- choward 5y ago
  Right. I wonder how much competition Amazon has eliminated over the years with their shady business practices. That competition may have driven innovation even further.
mschuster91 5y ago
> It’s a marketplace supported by fantastic logistics, and most of it is backed by USPS anyways. Not any more, USPS was only used for shipping anyway. Amazon has shifted to vertical integration wherever they can - they run everything they can, from air freight (with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Air https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Air) over their infamous warehouses to last-mile delivery with either in-house staff or "contractor" schemes set up to avoid labor regulations.
- black_puppydog 5y ago
  That last bit is an "innovation" I would (and have, when I could) pay many for to avoid. My mailman knows where I live, can enter the building with a key and knows my door. Amazon contractors keep calling me an hour ahead "will I be there?" then can't deliver the parcel to a nearby post office when I'm not. Over the last year of work-from-home this wasn't much of an issue but when you have a regular office job it can take a few days to get that parcel.
pydry 5y ago
It's pretty amazing to me how unsophisticated the filters and search criteria are. There are so many products where I'd like to filter or sort on weight (for instance) and it simply isn't possible. Nonetheless as a semi-monopoly you are rarely compelled to innovate like a smaller company is.
- b3kart 5y ago
  They can do better, no doubt, but it is a problem that sounds like it should be easy to solve, but becomes really rather tricky at Amazon’s scale and with their catalogue size, speed of updates to it, and general dependency on the quality of data provided by the sellers. Try defining good filter values when you have thousands of product categories with millions of products, many of which have poorly defined attributes, while all of this is subject to constant change. Quite a task.
  - pydry 5y ago
    Nothing is trivial at that size but given the immense resources and market power at their disposal, I find it more convincing that it's just not a priority because their market position is already too secure. I heard similar excuses back in the IE6 heyday for how improving the browser was "hard". Realistically 94% market share just meant that it wasn't broken from Microsoft's perspective.
nixass 5y ago
> and most of it is backed by USPS anyways Amazon does not do business in US only
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Yes, in UK wr have royal mail, and every other functional country has it's equivalent
tracer4201 5y ago
> Amazon the marketplace isn’t terribly innovative. It’s a marketplace supported by fantastic logistics These two statements contradict each other. The thing that Amazon does extremely well is logistics and that is core to their marketplace, not something else to the side. Amazon.com in my opinion is a logistics company who happens to have a Website that sells products. Amazon moves an item from point a to point b, and they do it fast and efficient enough that people go back to them again and again. Last month, I ordered two pairs of jeans and a t-shirt from Eddie Bauer. They arrived in three different packages after about 10 days. With Amazon, it would have been 1 package that arrives the next morning or the following day. If Amazon is abusing its position, substantial fines or regulations are the right solution in my opinion. I’m absolutely not in favor of nationalization. Any kind of government run facility, in my experience, is mind mumbling horrible at their job. They have no incentive to compete - which might eliminate bad behavior but it also makes for a terrible customer experience. Nationalizing Amazon is no different than just killing the company entirely.

smhost 5y ago

"Innovation" refers to practices like staying in the red for a decade and bypassing antitrust laws by owning (rather than monopolizing) markets. It has little to do with technological innovation.

andrepd 5y ago
Precisely. Much of the "innovations" and "efficiencies" touted (by Amazon and by many other players) are actually not any material/physical/technical improvements, but financial games, buying competitors, operating at a loss, regulatory evasion, monopolisation, etc.
- smhost 5y ago
  I mean, business/financial innovation is a legitimate kind of innovation. I'm not harping on Amazon for that. I just think that discussions about "loss of innovation" smuggle in some irrational fears about loss of technology when there are no real reasons to.
choward 5y ago
Right. I wonder how much competition Amazon has eliminated over the years with their shady business practices. That competition may have driven innovation even further.

mschuster91 5y ago

> It’s a marketplace supported by fantastic logistics, and most of it is backed by USPS anyways. Not any more, USPS was only used for shipping anyway. Amazon has shifted to vertical integration wherever they can - they run everything they can, from air freight (with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Air https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Air) over their infamous warehouses to last-mile delivery with either in-house staff or "contractor" schemes set up to avoid labor regulations.

black_puppydog 5y ago
That last bit is an "innovation" I would (and have, when I could) pay many for to avoid. My mailman knows where I live, can enter the building with a key and knows my door. Amazon contractors keep calling me an hour ahead "will I be there?" then can't deliver the parcel to a nearby post office when I'm not. Over the last year of work-from-home this wasn't much of an issue but when you have a regular office job it can take a few days to get that parcel.

pydry 5y ago

It's pretty amazing to me how unsophisticated the filters and search criteria are. There are so many products where I'd like to filter or sort on weight (for instance) and it simply isn't possible. Nonetheless as a semi-monopoly you are rarely compelled to innovate like a smaller company is.

b3kart 5y ago
They can do better, no doubt, but it is a problem that sounds like it should be easy to solve, but becomes really rather tricky at Amazon’s scale and with their catalogue size, speed of updates to it, and general dependency on the quality of data provided by the sellers. Try defining good filter values when you have thousands of product categories with millions of products, many of which have poorly defined attributes, while all of this is subject to constant change. Quite a task.
- pydry 5y ago
  Nothing is trivial at that size but given the immense resources and market power at their disposal, I find it more convincing that it's just not a priority because their market position is already too secure. I heard similar excuses back in the IE6 heyday for how improving the browser was "hard". Realistically 94% market share just meant that it wasn't broken from Microsoft's perspective.

nixass 5y ago

> and most of it is backed by USPS anyways Amazon does not do business in US only

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Yes, in UK wr have royal mail, and every other functional country has it's equivalent

tracer4201 5y ago

> Amazon the marketplace isn’t terribly innovative. It’s a marketplace supported by fantastic logistics These two statements contradict each other. The thing that Amazon does extremely well is logistics and that is core to their marketplace, not something else to the side. Amazon.com in my opinion is a logistics company who happens to have a Website that sells products. Amazon moves an item from point a to point b, and they do it fast and efficient enough that people go back to them again and again. Last month, I ordered two pairs of jeans and a t-shirt from Eddie Bauer. They arrived in three different packages after about 10 days. With Amazon, it would have been 1 package that arrives the next morning or the following day. If Amazon is abusing its position, substantial fines or regulations are the right solution in my opinion. I’m absolutely not in favor of nationalization. Any kind of government run facility, in my experience, is mind mumbling horrible at their job. They have no incentive to compete - which might eliminate bad behavior but it also makes for a terrible customer experience. Nationalizing Amazon is no different than just killing the company entirely.