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> Amazon has issues, but "nationalizing" it would not ease those issues in fact in most ways it would make them worse. Change my mind then? What would be worse

> Amazon has issues, but "nationalizing" it would not ease those issues in fact in most ways it would make them worse. Change my mind then? What would be worse in that situation?

jpxw 5y ago
When was the last time you used government-run software? Was it a good experience?
- jononomo 5y ago
  Amtrak is great. I generally like government-run services. Have you tried dealing with your local cable monopoly? It's a nightmare -- why not get the government involved so things work more smoothly and there is more competition?
- amalcon 5y ago
  Less than a month ago, to sign up for my COVID vaccine. Yes, it was a good experience.
- spaceribs 5y ago
  Yes actually, I recently signed up for my vaccination online via the GoVAX system, was flawless and painless: https://massvax.maryland.gov/ https://massvax.maryland.gov/ I've used plenty of for-profit software that did essentially the same thing but which fell flat on it's face in terms of UI/UX.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  All the time. Yes. I've also had bad experiences with plenty of private companies.
AbrahamParangi 5y ago
Interop requirements may serve better than direct government control. At the very least, it’s worth being clear eyed with respect to the quality of government run services. What would be necessary for the government to run a service like Amazon successfully? Is our government today capable of doing such a thing? I think the answer is clearly no.
- smhost 5y ago
  > What would be necessary for the government to run a service like Amazon successfully? Anti-corruption measures to stop politicians from sabotaging those services. E.g., USPS.
  - AbrahamParangi 5y ago
    Idk if USPS is truly an example of excellence, even if they are an example of govt excellence. In 2020 they shipped 70 billion packages, of which 90% was spam.
    - oblio 5y ago
      > In 2020 they shipped 70 billion packages, of which 90% was spam. Is that their problem, though? I don't think anyone expects the post to police package contents.
      - amalcon 5y ago
        They do police package contents to a degree, but only for actual crimes. Postal spam isn't a crime (and probably shouldn't be, as much as I'd like to get rid of the spam). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Inspection_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Inspectio...
      - shiftpgdn 5y ago
        They do police package contents, pretty heavily even. They allow spam (presorted bulk mail in post office terms) because the spammers have a strong lobby.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Well 90% of products on amazon are shit too, maybe some made with child labour. Are you sure this comparisom will be favourable?
- girvo 5y ago
  Government run services can be absolutely excellent though. It’s not a pure truth that government run = subpar.
rualca 5y ago
> What would be worse in that situation? It would be by far worse to not have Amazon, or dump their market share to shady chinese competitors like ali express.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Aliexpress is Ebay, not amazon. That being said, both feature a decent return policy, shitty and invariably wrong item description, no ability to properly filter goods and fake reviewes. The only dailight I see between them is the shipoing time and language.
passivate 5y ago
You said "X would be great" but didn't explain why, so a response like "No, X would be bad" is equally lacking in details. Its hard to discuss anything without an underlying basis for the conversation. There is no precedent for the US government providing services comparable to Amazon at comparable cost/benefit.
- spaceribs 5y ago
  I explained why, commercial goods and services would have a safe sponsored forum to sell their wares without worrying about a profit hungry giant measuring their success, cloning their business and driving them to bankruptcy.
  - passivate 5y ago
    You have identified a goal, which is a great start, and is definitely worth considering. However, I see a few gaps when connecting the dots. At present, there is nothing stopping one vendor from cloning another vendors products and services and marketing them outside of Amazon. So many products these days are just white-label goods made in China and rebranded elsewhere. Also, should the government really be in involved in managing logistics, storing and shipping smartphones and sneakers all over the world? I don't see this as the best use of our tax-dollars.

> Amazon has issues, but "nationalizing" it would not ease those issues in fact in most ways it would make them worse. Change my mind then? What would be worse in that situation?

jpxw 5y ago

When was the last time you used government-run software? Was it a good experience?

jononomo 5y ago
Amtrak is great. I generally like government-run services. Have you tried dealing with your local cable monopoly? It's a nightmare -- why not get the government involved so things work more smoothly and there is more competition?
amalcon 5y ago
Less than a month ago, to sign up for my COVID vaccine. Yes, it was a good experience.
spaceribs 5y ago
Yes actually, I recently signed up for my vaccination online via the GoVAX system, was flawless and painless: https://massvax.maryland.gov/ https://massvax.maryland.gov/ I've used plenty of for-profit software that did essentially the same thing but which fell flat on it's face in terms of UI/UX.
jfrunyon 5y ago
All the time. Yes. I've also had bad experiences with plenty of private companies.

AbrahamParangi 5y ago

Interop requirements may serve better than direct government control. At the very least, it’s worth being clear eyed with respect to the quality of government run services. What would be necessary for the government to run a service like Amazon successfully? Is our government today capable of doing such a thing? I think the answer is clearly no.

smhost 5y ago
> What would be necessary for the government to run a service like Amazon successfully? Anti-corruption measures to stop politicians from sabotaging those services. E.g., USPS.
- AbrahamParangi 5y ago
  Idk if USPS is truly an example of excellence, even if they are an example of govt excellence. In 2020 they shipped 70 billion packages, of which 90% was spam.
  - oblio 5y ago
    > In 2020 they shipped 70 billion packages, of which 90% was spam. Is that their problem, though? I don't think anyone expects the post to police package contents.
    - amalcon 5y ago
      They do police package contents to a degree, but only for actual crimes. Postal spam isn't a crime (and probably shouldn't be, as much as I'd like to get rid of the spam). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Inspection_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Inspectio...
    - shiftpgdn 5y ago
      They do police package contents, pretty heavily even. They allow spam (presorted bulk mail in post office terms) because the spammers have a strong lobby.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Well 90% of products on amazon are shit too, maybe some made with child labour. Are you sure this comparisom will be favourable?
girvo 5y ago
Government run services can be absolutely excellent though. It’s not a pure truth that government run = subpar.

rualca 5y ago

> What would be worse in that situation? It would be by far worse to not have Amazon, or dump their market share to shady chinese competitors like ali express.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Aliexpress is Ebay, not amazon. That being said, both feature a decent return policy, shitty and invariably wrong item description, no ability to properly filter goods and fake reviewes. The only dailight I see between them is the shipoing time and language.

passivate 5y ago

You said "X would be great" but didn't explain why, so a response like "No, X would be bad" is equally lacking in details. Its hard to discuss anything without an underlying basis for the conversation. There is no precedent for the US government providing services comparable to Amazon at comparable cost/benefit.

spaceribs 5y ago
I explained why, commercial goods and services would have a safe sponsored forum to sell their wares without worrying about a profit hungry giant measuring their success, cloning their business and driving them to bankruptcy.
- passivate 5y ago
  You have identified a goal, which is a great start, and is definitely worth considering. However, I see a few gaps when connecting the dots. At present, there is nothing stopping one vendor from cloning another vendors products and services and marketing them outside of Amazon. So many products these days are just white-label goods made in China and rebranded elsewhere. Also, should the government really be in involved in managing logistics, storing and shipping smartphones and sneakers all over the world? I don't see this as the best use of our tax-dollars.