3 ms·

Let's not kid ourselves. The segwit/2MB nonsense basically drove all developers away that aren't blockstream. There's no one left in bitcoin core that cares eno

by nodja 5y ago

Let's not kid ourselves. The segwit/2MB nonsense basically drove all developers away that aren't blockstream. There's no one left in bitcoin core that cares enough to go against blockstream unless it affects their bottom-line i.e. miners. This upgrade will boil down to "will mining pools bother to upgrade their nodes"?

nullc 5y ago
That is simply untrue. I think there is only one regular contributor to Bitcoin that is affiliated with blockstream, and meanwhile you can't name one contributor who left. [Perhaps you think you'd name Gavin Andresen? but he had stopped contributing years before blockstream even existed. ... and left the space entirely after an infamous incident where he vocally endorsed a pretty obvious scammer.]
- nodja 5y ago
  Gavin Andresen and Mike Hearn are the big ones yeah. Sure they left before the 2018 drama but they did leave due to block size disagreements. But that's not here nor there. The developers that left bitcoin aren't the developers putting commits on the protocol implementation. It's the developers that made tools on top of bitcoin itself. From not so legitimate sites like betting sites to sites and apps like openbazaar, retailers/payments processors, etc. After the 2018 debacle and the ever growing mempool/fee market most developers put bitcoin in legacy mode and started adopting other more frictionless coins like ethereum, bcash, litecoin, etc. I have a multireddit setup that has the big crypto subreddits inside (r/btc, r/bitcoin, r/bitcoincash, r/ethereum, r/monero), I check it once or twice a week when I'm bored, and I barely hear anything new coming from the bitcoin camp, no development discussion, no cool new service, no adoption talk. It's all HODL memes, value talk and the occasional lightning network update. I don't see development talk among the bitcoin community anymore. I'll repeat what I said, the developers that cared about bitcoin have left, the only people left that have a saying are people building layer 2 solutions (blockstream mostly) and miners. This upgrade doesn't affect miners, so I doubt they will contest.
  - nullc 5y ago
    > due to block size disagreements There were no block size disagreements going on when gavin wound down his involvement-- but now you've moved from "blockstream" to block size disagreements. Regardless of the history, -- bullet dodged there considering what eventually happened. > Mike Hearn are the big ones yeah The sum total of hearn's contributions to Bitcoin core were a dozen commits which were mostly one line string changes. To have left he would have had to have started rather than a couple drive-by tweaks. https://web.archive.org/web/20170809023814if_/http://s12.postimg.org/cqy6boot9/bitcoin_core_analysis.png https://web.archive.org/web/20170809023814if_/http://s12.pos... > the developers that cared about bitcoin have left Just repeating it doesn't make it true. Pretty ironic to say you rarely "hear anything new coming from the bitcoin camp, no development discussion" on a thread exactly about such a thing. I dunno what if it's you or I that inhabit a weird alternative reality, but one of us does because there is constant exciting Bitcoin news... and sure, a lot of memes too, they're often pretty funny even if a bit much. But over time the character of the news will become different as Bitcoin becomes more ubiquitous.
    - ur-whale 5y ago
      > exciting Bitcoin news I think you're being disingenuous. We're talking about the speed and volume of new tech being added to the Bitcoin ecosystem, not just about the fact that one such feature is (trying) to be added. The reality is: if you compare the speed at which and the amount of new stuff being built in and atop the ethereum ecosystem to the innovation in the Bitcoin ecosystem, the difference is absolutely striking. And BTW, IIRC, Vitalik walked away from Bitcoin and went on to create ETH for exactly the reasons outlined by the GP: a power grab by a small clique of fanatics that led to stagnation.
      - dmaharding 5y ago
        > The reality is: if you compare the speed at which and the amount of new stuff being built in and atop the ethereum ecosystem to the innovation in the Bitcoin ecosystem, the difference is absolutely striking. Here's a list of technical developments related to Bitcoin (including LN) grouped by month and topic as covered by a single publication over the past three years: https://bitcoinops.org/en/topic-dates/ https://bitcoinops.org/en/topic-dates/ I'd be interested in seeing a similar such list for Ethereum or any other cryptocurrency that shows a similar pace of development. Edit: removed paragraph based on accidental misattribution.

by nodja 5y ago

nullc 5y ago

That is simply untrue. I think there is only one regular contributor to Bitcoin that is affiliated with blockstream, and meanwhile you can't name one contributor who left. [Perhaps you think you'd name Gavin Andresen? but he had stopped contributing years before blockstream even existed. ... and left the space entirely after an infamous incident where he vocally endorsed a pretty obvious scammer.]

nodja 5y ago
Gavin Andresen and Mike Hearn are the big ones yeah. Sure they left before the 2018 drama but they did leave due to block size disagreements. But that's not here nor there. The developers that left bitcoin aren't the developers putting commits on the protocol implementation. It's the developers that made tools on top of bitcoin itself. From not so legitimate sites like betting sites to sites and apps like openbazaar, retailers/payments processors, etc. After the 2018 debacle and the ever growing mempool/fee market most developers put bitcoin in legacy mode and started adopting other more frictionless coins like ethereum, bcash, litecoin, etc. I have a multireddit setup that has the big crypto subreddits inside (r/btc, r/bitcoin, r/bitcoincash, r/ethereum, r/monero), I check it once or twice a week when I'm bored, and I barely hear anything new coming from the bitcoin camp, no development discussion, no cool new service, no adoption talk. It's all HODL memes, value talk and the occasional lightning network update. I don't see development talk among the bitcoin community anymore. I'll repeat what I said, the developers that cared about bitcoin have left, the only people left that have a saying are people building layer 2 solutions (blockstream mostly) and miners. This upgrade doesn't affect miners, so I doubt they will contest.
- nullc 5y ago
  > due to block size disagreements There were no block size disagreements going on when gavin wound down his involvement-- but now you've moved from "blockstream" to block size disagreements. Regardless of the history, -- bullet dodged there considering what eventually happened. > Mike Hearn are the big ones yeah The sum total of hearn's contributions to Bitcoin core were a dozen commits which were mostly one line string changes. To have left he would have had to have started rather than a couple drive-by tweaks. https://web.archive.org/web/20170809023814if_/http://s12.postimg.org/cqy6boot9/bitcoin_core_analysis.png https://web.archive.org/web/20170809023814if_/http://s12.pos... > the developers that cared about bitcoin have left Just repeating it doesn't make it true. Pretty ironic to say you rarely "hear anything new coming from the bitcoin camp, no development discussion" on a thread exactly about such a thing. I dunno what if it's you or I that inhabit a weird alternative reality, but one of us does because there is constant exciting Bitcoin news... and sure, a lot of memes too, they're often pretty funny even if a bit much. But over time the character of the news will become different as Bitcoin becomes more ubiquitous.
  - ur-whale 5y ago
    > exciting Bitcoin news I think you're being disingenuous. We're talking about the speed and volume of new tech being added to the Bitcoin ecosystem, not just about the fact that one such feature is (trying) to be added. The reality is: if you compare the speed at which and the amount of new stuff being built in and atop the ethereum ecosystem to the innovation in the Bitcoin ecosystem, the difference is absolutely striking. And BTW, IIRC, Vitalik walked away from Bitcoin and went on to create ETH for exactly the reasons outlined by the GP: a power grab by a small clique of fanatics that led to stagnation.
    - dmaharding 5y ago
      > The reality is: if you compare the speed at which and the amount of new stuff being built in and atop the ethereum ecosystem to the innovation in the Bitcoin ecosystem, the difference is absolutely striking. Here's a list of technical developments related to Bitcoin (including LN) grouped by month and topic as covered by a single publication over the past three years: https://bitcoinops.org/en/topic-dates/ https://bitcoinops.org/en/topic-dates/ I'd be interested in seeing a similar such list for Ethereum or any other cryptocurrency that shows a similar pace of development. Edit: removed paragraph based on accidental misattribution.